Official Sturmpioneer thread

That's pure RNG, however. Yeah, I've had rifles shred incoming Sturms and force a retreat with barely a model loss; other times the Sturms arrive losing 1 model max and then they wipe the floor with the rifles in seconds. If the Sturms are in equal cover at medium or short range, however, they win. Given that this engagement can easily dictate the tempo of the entire early game, rolling the dice like that is just not acceptable.

actually katitof is right. i find that sturmpios are easily handled by rifles kept at range and cover. I would recomend shooting and moving. it sounds like you are just letting them get in effective range.

Unless you're extremely lucky with dice rolls, Sturmpios tend to straight up beat Rifles. I've had Rifles win due to a number of factors, but it's usually because they all end up shooting the same model.

Volley Fire is extremely effective though.

When I play CoH2 I like to draw parallels between this game and DoW2, and I peg the Americans as Space Marines and OKW as Orks. In the same way Scout had to babysit Tactical Marines and Shotgun Blast melee units off them, Rear Echelons play an extremely strong supporting role for America's infantry.

If Volley Fire wasn't so vitally important to the OKW vs USA match-up, I'd even say it was too potent.

Best use I have seen of sturm pios was in a 1 v 1 where a player engaged me with some flak support causing a heavy retreat and his sturmpios were already positioned at retreat cutoff. they annihilated all survivers and it was GG.

you can argue thats good play. yes! its also pretty frustrating for me. I cannot do anything near the same with US, it just has to be that boring grind down gameplay of overwelming firepower in places with a massive cap push on the break.

OKW just seem to dominate somehow when the right player is using them.

Unfortunately what you guys are experiencing is the same thing that happened when the panzer elite and bits came to coh 1. Tier zero combat units break the game core design. Coh is best played with weak tier zero engineers.

You have a choice to rush weak engineers or build a barracks at the start and use scouts or combat units. It all comes down to game pace. Tier zero combat units rush the pace way too quick and makes balance a nightmare for factions who do not have tier zero combat units.

Anytime you can spam mid game infantry from the very start of the match it just breaks the game. There needs to be slow progression at the start of the match kinda like when two boxers jab at each other and get a feel for the fight. Tier zero combat units is more like somebody throwing haymakers wildly. Sure you can throw back just as wildly if you also have tier zero combat units but if you don't you can weather the storm and wait until they gass out and give up.

The game is much better when designed for a weak tier zero engineer, building, scout/skirmish phase then mid game with light vehicles into armor. The call of duty tier zero starts do not fit well.

Airborne with 50 cal. drops @ 2 CP also works well.

Positioning.

Close range Sturmpios beat rifles.
Mid range it's pretty equal.
Long range Rifles beat Sturmpios.

Besides that as was said, Volley fire.
1 Rear Echelon + 1 Rifle easily beat 2 Sturmpios with Volley fire. Even one Rear Echelon sometimes manages to beat 2 Sturmpios if you know how to use it.

Whu? 1 rear echelon beats 2 Sturms? Replay please. You were either playing against the Easy AI or the guy just left. Volley fire only pins one squad (and is quasi nullified by green cover) and Sturms otherwise make mincemeat of RE in a hurry even at midrange.

Listen, I'm not talking about Sturms used by a-move newbies. People who are used to assault infantry and know how to use them can get a hell of a lot of mileage with a unit that almost has PGren level of firepower this early.

@DarthBong: What do you suggest, leaving cover and fleeing? Unless the Sturms are very far away and/or not advancing, that's asking to be shredded. It also gives up map control, which is a potentially serious loss against OKW.

I'm not saying Sturms are crazy OP, they're definitely beatable. They just seem really strong at the moment. We'll see how the meta develops, but I think it will end up with them being nerfed as well as having their price drop. Having a stronger starting unit is fine, having one that straight up beats most T1 infantry in most scenarios seems a bit much.

Disclaimer: Volley fire can actually pin more than one squad.

Disclaimer #2: People like to blob sturmpioneers.

Disclaimer: Volley fire can actually pin more than one squad.

Disclaimer #2: People like to blob sturmpioneers.

^ This, if you keep your rear echelon alive, spam volley fire and win all your engagements.

keep them at 240mp with k98s, give them stg44 upgrades at 60munitions for shock troop duties later, with some added utilities for specialization, maybe smoke nades.

that would solve alot of problems with t0 combatants.

keep them at 240mp with k98s, give them stg44 upgrades at 60munitions for shock troop duties later, with some added utilities for specialization, maybe smoke nades.

that would solve alot of problems with t0 combatants.

Yeah thats not happening.

If anything I'd say give them Assault Grenadier MP 40's at a lower price.

But personally I think they're fine, there are ways to beat them, some people just can't quite master those and beg for the game to be changed instead.

If anything I'd say give them Assault Grenadier MP 40's at a lower price.


But personally I think they're fine, there are ways to beat them, some people just can't quite master those and beg for the game to be changed instead.

1#: They aren't broken.

2#: Not all engineers have to be dirt cheap and suck at combat. OKW is called OKW for a reason. Sturmpioneers without Stg44's are just regular pioneers. Ostheer has regular pioneers, welcome to a new meta where units are different, and players whine because they hate changes in their strats that causes them to struggle for once.

Eventually people will learn to use secondary abilities and cover to kill units.

I got bored of this game for a while because all it was was spam 5 grenadiers, or spam 5 maxims. How is that fun? A new unit comes along and changes things. In the case of boring as hell spam wars, change is a good thing.

Also, i find it ridiculous that people can counter panzergrenadiers but not sturmpioneers - they have the same dps and are both four man. Soviets have the counters for panzergrenadiers at the start of the game - sturmpioneers arent a problem.
Americans have rear archelon and riflemen that are good at range. That takes care of most infantry.

Excuses, excuses.

I don't have an issue with them from an American perspective.

I think Soviets are quite capable of handling them as well. They're weak at range, and like Americans soviets have the focus fire advantage. (Not to mention that units like Scout cars or maxims will chew them to pieces.)

Stop trying to fix what isn't broken you nublets...

1#: They aren't broken.

2#: Not all engineers have to be dirt cheap and suck at combat. OKW is called OKW for a reason. Sturmpioneers without Stg44's are just regular pioneers. Ostheer has regular pioneers, welcome to a new meta where units are different, and players whine because they hate changes in their strats that causes them to struggle for once.

You did not read the second half of my post, did you?

You did not read the second half of my post, did you?

I did, i was just justifying for the whiners. I wasnt exactly answering to you, i was "building off of what you said". I think. I didnt actually need to quote.

I think its a great dynamic to have elite starting combat pioneers for the OKW, which can handle themselves well into the later game.

It fits conceptually in what the OKW are supposed to be in the game, elite units, which are expensive and limited in numbers.

There are PLENTY of counters by all factions against Sturmpioneers,but you just cannot throw your units at them and hope you will run through them with ease.
Thats the beauty of COH.

And as has been stated here before, there are clearly disadvantages to Sturmpioneer spam.
They are expensive, cost a lot to reinforce, no AT abilities, and too heavily investing in them can slow you down from upgrading to higher Technology.

Again, this is the kind of thing that company of heroes 1 shined for, the non linear balance of the factions, requiring you to think outside the box.

I dont know why some people are interested in warcraft 2 style balance, if you know what i mean haha

Sturmpioneers are fine after the five minute mark. Nobody is considering them OP, or even unbalanced as a unit.

The fact they come at T0 and even start the game as your initial unit is, though, because it messes up any semblance of map control. Yes, we can deal with them once we amass some units. But if we blob units up at the start because of sturmpio concerns we have no map control. If we spread out they can roll up and curbstomp any capping units lounging around.

The unit itself can stay, but OKW and the entire game has zero need for facerolling engineers as their T0 unit. If Ostheer had Panzergrenadiers as their T0 everyone would lose their collective shit about early game balance, being an 'elite' fraction is a pretty poor justification for it.

Americans have to cower together in huddles and soviets can build a tier (and invest more manpower meaning less early squads) or just suck on a big Sturmpio bullet sandwich.

Just give them a rifle squad to start with and be done with.

If you are blobbing all your units as your means to counter them, and losing map control as a result doesnt sound like a balance issue to me.

There are plenty of ways the scenario can go.

As ive noticed a rifleman squad and rear echelon squad make a great team in easily countering them with suppress ability.Most likely they will retreat, buying you time and map control. a single rifleman squad well managed can also deal with them, but with difficulty, as it should be, until it is evened out with the extra weapons.

Grenades do wonders against them.

I think its perfectly justified, again keep in mind they are 320MP, you are taking big risks pumping them out, which fits right into big risks and potentially big reward.

If you screw up with them, you are crippled for later on in the game.

The americans can pump out cheap rear echelon troops to have an advantage in map control in comparison. Of course depending on the map there will always be a unique dynamic.

I think early game, the americans have more potential map control and flexibility,and less direct firepower.I dont see it as a broken mechanic.

Ive played with both sides and and found you can counter both sides in a fun and interesting ways. so in my mind nothing needs changing.

StP is good because OKW capping power just sucks through and through. Both US and Soviet have plenty of counter: maxim, M3, rear echelon... Oh and they suck vs building. Even when you drop 1-2 models and then retreat, your next engagement will be vs maybe another StP or volk. StP is only strong when they go 1v1. They scale very bad into late game when u need minesweeping or repairing because mines really hurt OKW.