Official Sturmpioneer thread

Sturmpio's not OP, they are counterable ofcourse but I want to discuss something with the guys here who have big brains.

Compare Rear Echelon - Combat Pio's - Pio's - Sturmpio's.

First units should not outperform others in that way.
I understand the idea about having an elite faction, but not that early.
Make them upgradable, sure. More armor? sure. But early shocks is not good for balance imo.

Anyway, discuss lads.

OKW also only have immediate access to volks, kubel, and pios, not an immediate T1 for Ostheer of T1/T2 for Sovs.

The 320 mp cost and heavy reinforce cost kill your manpower. Their low survivability dont help either. If charging at riflemen/cons in cover, the pios will take heavy losses/lose (all RNG dependent of course).

Lack of early game OKW flexibility, until the first truck is up, is why sturmpios are meant to be an elite starting unit.

Trying to expand ton kreatiirs thinking here.

So Combats can beat Pios if employed correctly, considering Pios don't deal that much damage up close as sturm-pios.

Both pios, and combat engineers can get flamers later witch gives them a place even in late game. Same with Rear Echelon, their ability to suppress does give them an valid place in later stages of the game.
I also feel sturm-pios (same as with other units sturm-pios is really the equivalent of IRL pios but nvm.)
would have a valid place in late game as a flanking unit.

The problem comes form Sturm-pios (StP from now on.) really wrecking it against combat engineers and rear echelon troops (RET) in the very first engagement of the battle, and then the StP will continue to wreck against scripts for quite a long time.

All other first units are quite weak early and is mostly about capping points and building but they can be upgraded to be a better asset in the late game. And if microed properly they can hold their own against the enemies first units.

Is it really sound to have one faction starting with a hard counter to the opposing factions starting units?

Support your rifles with rear ecehelons -> volley fire with echelon and your rifles will have a fun day messing up the sturmpios unless they are properly supported.

As Dusty said, if they spam sturmpios, the reinforcecost will soon be staggering.

About countering the opponents first unit, yes. They will hurt, so dont go into a 1v1. Move up across the map in a way that lets you sync up with your 2nd squad roughly where you think the first engagement will be. Or try to work around the pios for a bit and try to take territory that isnt contested, or hit weaker volks capping other areas.

Again, it is not a matter that StP is so strong they are invincible, it is a matter of them being a unit that fits better later in the game and not at the start.

StPs is the equivalent of having pios/engies spawn already upgraded with flamethrowers. Sure you can counter them but they are stupidly strong for a first unit. As such the flamer is a later upgrade for the unit and then it fits perfectly, having that upgrade immediately is stupid.

I agree, I dislike the idea of high DPS units coming early in the game, because RNG or a lucky retreat cutoff can really screw up the opponent's chances of having a decent game at all.

This is more a philosophical difference though, they are counterable if alone. And if with volks, that's a volks not capping somewhere else.

They go down very quick when focused.
They nearly always loose a model when they try to close in without cover.
They cost a lot of manpower, also to reinforce.

Two american units can easily stop Sturmpioneers from charging and forcing retreats. All what Sturmpioneers can do is to retreat or stay at range where they will lose inevitably.

They have no scaling and lose to a single Rifleman squad with BARs. As the battlefield gets more lethal the Sturmpioneer is only good for defending other units. Or flanking Mg's & Anti Tank Guns.

If you know that somebody has 3 Stormpios out in the early game, get a utility car, or get an mg, to force retreats and bleed manpower.

Can we wait a week before judging that "OKW is OP pls nerf"?

They go down very quick when focused.

Two american units can easily stop Sturmpioneers from charging and forcing retreats.

They have no scaling and lose to a single Rifleman squad with BARs. As the battlefield gets more lethal the Sturmpioneer is only good for defending other units. Or flanking Mg's & Anti Tank Guns.

So yeah there you have the problems I see with this unit. No scaling and the fact that allies need two units to deal with the very first OKW unit.

(Although I personally see it scaling ok if used correctly.)

Two units to deal with a 320 mp unit, not to mention the cheaper allied squads/build times inherently means there will already be a numerical superiority of squads at any given time.

So why are we complaining again?

Seriously, its hilarious how spot on most people were with "X is OP" predictions pre-release. A day hasn't even passed.

Two units to deal with a 320 mp unit, not to mention the cheaper allied squads/build times inherently means there will already be a numerical superiority of squads at any given time.

So why are we complaining again?

Seriously, its hilarious how spot on most people were with "X is OP" predictions pre-release. A day hasn't even passed.

And equally it is not strange it would take more than one unit to deal with a 390mp shock or a 400mp obersoldaten, but to get those there is teching and getting CPs.

It is however ridiculous that first StP dosen't have to be built, it is granted to the player at the start of the game. Thats is all we are saying. Not that it shouldn't exist but that in early it is way to good for its capability.

Lower the price to >200mp, give them Kar98s to start with and then make them upgrade to MP44s and the problem is gone.

And equally it is not strange it would take more than one unit to deal with a 390mp shock or a 400mp obersoldaten, but to get those there is teching and getting CPs.

It is however ridiculous that first StP dosen't have to be built, it is granted to the player at the start of the game. Thats is all we are saying. Not that it shouldn't exist but that in early it is way to good for its capability.

Lower the price to >200mp, give them Kar98s to start with and then make them upgrade to MP44s and the problem is gone.

Sorry that is just bullshit.

No unit is granted for free. Every faction starts with the same manpower, the first unit is subtracted from it.

You have during early game all the time a number advantage.

By the time you have 3 riflemen on the field and the 4th producing you opponent can have maximally 2 stormpios and 1 volks.
Building more pios denies him: teching, thus medics, and by this a forward retreat point.

You basically ask that rear echolon troops should be equal to stormpios or riflemen should be equal. That's not gonna happen, since stormpios cannot be spammed.

Stormpios never ever had Kar98s, they were trully elite troops of the wehrmacht, to gimp them down and break immersion just because you want to beat them with your first rifle men squad or conscript squad states how little you understand of the game. Get out a M3 and you beat them, get 1 rear echolon and one riflemen and you beat them.



It's just a learn to play issue.

Giving Stormpios Kar-98k and an upgrade to StG44 will not solve the problem, but actually make it worse. Units with upgrades are always problematic because they vastly overperform for their cost. Instead of solving the issue you would shift it from having the problem of facing a good, but expensive earlygame unit to facing a good and cheap mid/lategame unit.

It was suggested a few times to exchange the starting Sturmpio with a Volksgrenadier and increase the manpower by 80 to make up for that. Would only have a minor effect on the game, though.

The small weapons profiles for Sturmpioneer's is over the top. I would like to see the full diagram but it appears they are good at short, mid, and long range. Why we are having to deal with Shock Troops Jr at 0CP is a bit a question on it's own.

The small weapons profiles for Sturmpioneer's is over the top. I would like to see the full diagram but it appears they are good at short, mid, and long range. Why we are having to deal with Shock Troops Jr at 0CP is a bit a question on it's own.

It's the exact same profile as the Panzer Grenadier's MP44

Depends.

As Russian Maxim will counter Sturmpioneer really good and also other things like M3, Sniper, flame v.v.v ). I don't find it hard to kill Sturmpioneer if you keep in mind that this is just PG.

Their reinforcing cost is also veryyyy high so this is a fancy target for me to kill.

For US then I kinda find it a little hard to deal with this unit at first. Best way to do is to get the Rear Echelon troops to suppress them until you got BAR or grenade.

I think OKW was designed to show how bad people are at countering units even though they have access to counters...

StP really wasn't a problem in the alpha as soon as people adjusted. You can easily win an engagement if you force them to close the distance.

Maybe strum pio's assault rifle profile is not correct. To me, I see strum pio's range is long and medium and short though my infantry squad is in green cover.