SU-85 vs Tiger broken
11 Jun 2014, 06:18 AM
#1
Posts: 1158
I don't know what's up with this, I guess maybe a byproduct of the LERP Relic added in for penetration, but I think it has really messed up the SU-85. I have a replay of game where my SU-85's failed over and over again to penetrate tiger. I'm not talking just a few shots, I had vet3!!! SU-85 at max range beating on a tiger and it looked like maybe 1 of 5 or 6 rounds penetrated for SOME damage, I don't even think it was full damage. This wasn't just 1 time freak occurance, it happened several times in the game. I had unusually good luck kiting armor in this game with SU-85 and shot off a bunch of shells from max range. I think 25% or less penetration is really dumb for a tank destroyer! I've also been noticing that it misses a LOT. SU-85 needs to be good at wrecking armor, it's the only thing it can do. Even when IS2 had enough armor to make elefant rounds fail to penetrate, it wasn't this bad, it was maybe 1 out of 2 would fail. It's my opinion that the SU-85 is a great destroyer, but broken vs Tiger. Tiger needs armor decrease or SU-85 gun needs a penetration increase, the gap is too large with this matchup (at max range).
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
11 Jun 2014, 06:23 AM
#2
Posts: 368
su85 needs to do more damage lol
11 Jun 2014, 06:25 AM
#3
Posts: 1158
not damage, damage is fine. Penetration and only vs tiger. It doesn't have issues with anything else.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
11 Jun 2014, 06:48 AM
#4
4 
Posts: 542 | Subs: 1
not damage, damage is fine. Penetration and only vs tiger. It doesn't have issues with anything else.
Guess its more pen or less pen for su85 in general.
Specific penetration for single unit types doesn't exist.
11 Jun 2014, 08:21 AM
#5
Posts: 198
SU-85 vs Tiger has 60% to penetrate at max range.
I don't think any of those units gets penetration or armour bonuses with veterancy, so vet levels don't matter.
I don't think any of those units gets penetration or armour bonuses with veterancy, so vet levels don't matter.
11 Jun 2014, 08:42 AM
#6
4 
Posts: 369
As stated in your replay title, this is probably just bad RNG. The SU-85 isn't the great tank destroyer it once was, but it's fine as far as I know.
11 Jun 2014, 09:05 AM
#7
Posts: 379
If TensaiOni's quoted values are true, then I see no problem with the situation. It must just have been bad luck.
Remember being closer increases penetration as well (although is not always desirable).
Remember being closer increases penetration as well (although is not always desirable).
11 Jun 2014, 09:09 AM
#8
4 Posts: 369
That goes both ways, you really want to keep SU-85s at range 
11 Jun 2014, 09:14 AM
#9
Posts: 198
If TensaiOni's quoted values are true, then I see no problem with the situation. It must just have been bad luck.
Remember being closer increases penetration as well (although is not always desirable).
They are true - stats for SU-85's D5T gun and Tiger
In SU-85 case, closing range against a Tiger doesn't really help much (60% vs 66,6%)
11 Jun 2014, 09:30 AM
#10
Posts: 157
SU-85 pen is the same as Field gun
SU-85 pen 200/190/180
SU-85 vs Tiger = 66%/63%/60%
so it hardly made much different at range.
SU-85 pen 200/190/180
SU-85 vs Tiger = 66%/63%/60%
so it hardly made much different at range.
11 Jun 2014, 10:45 AM
#11
Posts: 246
Buffing SU-85 would make it OP against other tanks, leave it as it is.
11 Jun 2014, 11:10 AM
#12
Posts: 2819
I don't have any problems with them..
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
11 Jun 2014, 12:33 PM
#13
Posts: 1571
Use Zis guns instead of SU-85.
Use that fuel for T-34s instead.
Use that fuel for T-34s instead.
11 Jun 2014, 13:04 PM
#14
1 
Posts: 2885
Are you guys completly sure that the penetration chance is only a simple division not something like gauss curve or sth like that? That would mean you actually have a 16.7% chance to penetrate tiger with T-70, sounds impossible.
11 Jun 2014, 13:07 PM
#15
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Are you guys completly sure that the penetration chance is only a simple division not something like gauss curve or sth like that? That would mean you actually have a 16.7% chance to penetrate tiger with T-70, sounds impossible.
Yes, its flat penetration/armor with taking range into account.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Jun 2014, 13:12 PM
#16
1 Posts: 2885
So primitive... Looks like there is no problem with amount of rng in game but the functions computer uses, that kind of function will never be even close to fair or real. With a straight line you can even penetrate a t-34 with mg-42 with 1,5% chance which is not so low considering it fires bursts.
11 Jun 2014, 13:23 PM
#17
10 
Posts: 871
So primitive... Looks like there is no problem with amount of rng in game but the functions computer uses, that kind of function will never be even close to fair or real. With a straight line you can even penetrate a t-34 with mg-42 with 1,5% chance witch is not so low considering it fires bursts.
Several patches ago I rammed a PZ IV with a T-34, eventually killed the P4. My T-34 was immobolized with its rear facing an MG42. At the end of the game, T-34's had "most damage from: MG42". Turns out the MG42 killed the T-34
Had around 50% HP as well.
11 Jun 2014, 13:34 PM
#18
1 Posts: 2885
That's the other bug i think, from my experience MGs, especially those in bunkers have damage counted vs vehicles no metter if they penetrate or not. For example if you go with a kv-8 to enemy base and you burn his retreating squad sitting in constant mg nest fire you will have your kv untouched but if you watch enemy's damage counter in a replay at the moment it will be going into insane numbers.
11 Jun 2014, 15:11 PM
#19
Posts: 1168
Puppetmaster, that is a bug.
You could face a maxim against a tiger and every bullet fired at the tiger counts as 'damage done' even though it does not penetrate of course.
For this reason, the total 'damage done' by each player can be very skewed by players with many HMGs that fire at armoured targets.
You could face a maxim against a tiger and every bullet fired at the tiger counts as 'damage done' even though it does not penetrate of course.
For this reason, the total 'damage done' by each player can be very skewed by players with many HMGs that fire at armoured targets.
11 Jun 2014, 15:59 PM
#20
Posts: 4928
Several patches ago I rammed a PZ IV with a T-34, eventually killed the P4. My T-34 was immobolized with its rear facing an MG42. At the end of the game, T-34's had "most damage from: MG42". Turns out the MG42 killed the T-34
I'd love to see a picture of this, but I'm not sure this is actually possible. Maybe if the MG 42 kept poppi8ng API Rounds, but I never tried those on a Tank. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that Tanks are completely bulletproof regardless of armour.
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