IS2 are you kidding me?

Why do you attack AI tanik with infantry?

Are you going against elephants with SU-85 as well?

The IS-2 is Anti-Infantry and Anti-Tank, FYI.

I play both factions. IS-2 is crap. Panthers eat it for breakfast. If you are fielding infantry against it, OTOH, you just brought a knife to a gunfight.

I play both factions. IS-2 is crap. Panthers eat it for breakfast. If you are fielding infantry against it, OTOH, you just brought a knife to a gunfight.

You said Panthers, so I assume you mean more than one. Lets say 2 Panthers. 2 Panthers are dedicated Anti-Tank, and cost almost as much as an IS-2, which is dual Anti-Tank / Anti-Infantry. Even so, the IS-2's gun is as effective as a Panther on Tanks, and a Sturmpanzer on Infantry, the trade-off is the slow rate-of-fire. I would hope that 2 dedicated Anti-Tank's can kill one breakthrough Tank.

Alternatively, yes, a single Panther can kill a single IS-2 from the front, but that's just RNG. A T-34/76 can beat a Panzer IV from the front as well, and is even more likely to have success with this than a Panther vs IS-2 is.

You said Panthers, so I assume you mean more than one. Lets say 2 Panthers. 2 Panthers are dedicated Anti-Tank, and cost almost as much as an IS-2, which is dual Anti-Tank / Anti-Infantry. Even so, the IS-2's gun is as effective as a Panther on Tanks, and a Sturmpanzer on Infantry, the trade-off is the slow rate-of-fire. I would hope that 2 dedicated Anti-Tank's can kill one breakthrough Tank.

Alternatively, yes, a single Panther can kill a single IS-2 from the front, but that's just RNG. A T-34/76 can beat a Panzer IV from the front as well, and is even more likely to have success with this than a Panther vs IS-2 is.

Actually with a Panther you can micro in such a way that the IS2 is constantly stuck with Turret traverse as your drive around it getting hit after hit in as it helplessly lumbers backwards to try and get away from the Panther thats on it like a bee hive.

This will net you a kill with a Panther vs an IS2 1v1. Otherwise I dont know a Panther and a single faust hit? A Panther and a single Shrek hit. A panther and a single Pak hit. A panther and a Stug. A panther and a Brummbar. A Panther and a P4 a Panther and an Ostruppen squad and and and....

Also a single Tiger thats cheaper..

IS2 is hardly the beast its made out to be. Now if it had 1080 HPs rather than 960 then you may have a point.

As it stands it takes far too much of a beating from a lone Panther to be even remotely considered OP.

Actually with a Panther you can micro in such a way that the IS2 is constantly stuck with Turret traverse as your drive around it getting hit after hit in as it helplessly lumbers backwards to try and get away from the Panther thats on it like a bee hive.

This will net you a kill with a Panther vs an IS2 1v1. Otherwise I dont know a Panther and a single faust hit? A Panther and a single Shrek hit. A panther and a single Pak hit. A panther and a Stug. A panther and a Brummbar. A Panther and a P4 a Panther and an Ostruppen squad and and and....

But if forces the Panther into an offensive role where it is at risk and the IS-2 is not. A single AT nade will end the circle strafe and give the IS-2 the upper hand again. And if you have an IS-2 I don't know why its not supported.

The IS-2 is an excellent, excellent tank. I don't think it needs to be nerfed or buffed per se, but you are way under selling such a well rounded unit.

Stop bringing up the Tiger please, its goal is to kill tanks, and its not like when it arrives the IS-2 automatically dies. It just means the IS-2 has to be careful not to over extend. Again a single AT nade can cripple the tank, and then the IS-2 can dodge in and out of the max range firing a shot off and weakening it or killing Pio's trying to repair.

Actually with a Panther you can micro in such a way that the IS2 is constantly stuck with Turret traverse as your drive around it getting hit after hit in as it helplessly lumbers backwards to try and get away from the Panther thats on it like a bee hive.

Have you tried turning the Tank in the direction of the turret traverse? It makes it much quicker. You should also have AT Conscripts nearby, if it's all alone in enemy territory then I don't know what to tell ya'.

Also a single Tiger thats cheaper..

IS-2 has faster acceleration, higher armour, higher penetration, and higher damage. The Tiger has higher health and a faster rate of fire. Use your speed advantages to beat the Tiger, move in, shoot, pull back to reload, and repeat. He won't be able to keep up, and he won't be able to use his rate of fire advantage.

I find the is2 pritty good, but its not op at all. Its funny that a 600mp /130f medium tank can i give a 760mp/240f HEAVEY tank a run for its money. if any thing it should be; panther are you kiding me !!!!!!

I find the is2 pritty good, but its not op at all. Its funny that a 600mp /130f medium tank can i give a 760mp/240f HEAVEY tank a run for its money. if any thing it should be; panther are you kiding me !!!!!!

Losing IS2 to a single panther is really a L2P issue.

Oh goody,another SOVIET OP thread...was wondering when it would come...
Seriously though,L2P...you could attack a heavy tank with,let's say...a tank?even two P4's are enough

I find the is2 pritty good, but its not op at all. Its funny that a 600mp /130f medium tank can i give a 760mp/240f HEAVEY tank a run for its money. if any thing it should be; panther are you kiding me !!!!!!

First off, the IS-2 is basically a Sturmpanzer and Panther in one. The combined cost of a Sturmpanzer and Panther is 1280MP / 270FU. Sure you can buy one while you wait for the other, but it's still a steep cost.

The IS-2's main gun has higher damage and a large blast radius than the Sturmpanzer IV. For specifics, the instant-kill radius is 2.25 (IS-2) to 2 (Sturmpanzer). That's the the strongest AI Tank on the Ostheer side, being beat by an AI / AT Tank at it's only job. Keep in mind this is against 4 man squads rather than 6, so even if they were statistically identical, it'd be better by proxy.

Now we have the Panther. The Panther shoots faster than the IS-2 does, and both have the same penetration. But the IS-2 has higher armour and higher damage, enough to make up for the ROF difference. Assuming they all penetrate, the Panther will kill the IS-2 in 6 shots, and the IS-2 will kill the Panther in 4. Those 4 come out slightly faster than the Panther's 6. The Panther's 7th and IS-2's 5th shots are roughly the same time again. The Panther has a 52% chance to penetrate the IS-2 from the front, the IS-2 has a 63% chance to penetrate the Panther from the front. Not a lot of difference, but at the same time there is. IS-2 comes out on top here.

Oh goody,another SOVIET OP thread...was wondering when it would come...
Seriously though,L2P...you could attack a heavy tank with,let's say...a tank?even two P4's are enough

I bet that IS2 anger RNG God and miss all shot.
2 P4 can handle IS2? Are we playing the same game?

why are people so offended in these threads?

it's not that everybody is whining their faces of with "soviet op" but the squad wipe risk is a huge gamebreaker.

tanks such as the IS2, ISU152 are really poorly designed when they can instawipe all their counters.

Pak40? no problem 1-2 shots max. Do the dumb thing and build an Pak43 for 480mp and no problem 1-2 shots from a damn T34 will be enough, we're not even talking about a ISU-range over half the map-152.

but the biggest issue isn't even the poor design in this but rather that as a german player you basically can't afford to lose any squads while you can eliminate 8 conscripts in one game and your opponent will still be fielding 3-4 squads with ppsh. and the russian army has an abundance of squad wipe tools that really wreck the balance.

6v4 man squads is really poor the way the RNG works right now. right now, if i as a german lets say chose to go head to head with my 3 grens + 1 pgren with 4-5 cons - i might win. but if there is a mortar at any point at the map i basically have to 1. keep moving (and lose the benefit of cover = bye bye squads) 2. stay in cover and get destroyed or 3. retreat.

and if it isn't a mortar it's a:

Mortar
Heavy Mortar
Flame Arty
IS2
ISU152
Katyusha
Zis-with arty
Su76 with arty
Flametank of lucifer

german units with equal squad wipe potential?
?
?
?
?
?
basically whats left for you to do is to out micro, out macro, be tactically superior and completely outclass your opponent to be able to stand a 50-50 chance to win. as a soviet player, just keep throwing units into the fire and hold out until you get something like the IS2 and just walk into opponents base and win.

what's even worse is that to make a gren viable at all it needs a 60muni upgrade and will most likely get wiped anyways no matter how careful you are. for soviets this risk is basically 0.

i'm annoyed at this because i've been taught that map dominance should in 9/10 games be a win. the other day i held 75% of the map and still saw a Su85 and 2 heavy mortars pretty much wipe my entire army in less than 30 seconds. oh yeah and flame arty on my pak and bye bye map presence. from 10 units fielded to 1 scout car and one pio. cool game bro. so its frustrating when you have to play your ass off just for 2 stationary units to wipe your entire army - not becuase you were outplayed but becuase "why the hell not".

German units with equal squad wipe potential?

- PG at retreat route
- Flamer HT at retreat route
- S mines at retreat route
- Mortar HT flame round, if they drunk enough to stay in fire

All of them need to outmicro your opponent.

Losing IS2 to a single panther is really a L2P issue.

i didnt say any about losing it to a single p5,i said a p5 will give it a run for it money meaning is2 will roll away with low with health in a 1v1, even tho of the massive price difference.
maybe its a L2R issue

Losing IS2 to a single panther is really a L2P issue.

Pick mechanized support, click pin plane, there, all infantry support is cut off, proceed to circling around IS-2 with panther for a free kill.

Its called micro and only ZiS can me this harder.

i didnt say any about losing it to a single p5,i said a p5 will give it a run for it money meaning is2 will roll away with low with health in a 1v1, even tho of the massive price difference.
maybe its a L2R issue

Oh God, you seriously let an IS2 roaming without support?

Panthers, with their ludicrous turbo-chargers, can warp around unsupported. Soviet heavy tanks, which lumber about like sclerotic dinosaurs, require a retinue of babysitters.

Like I say I play both factions. I happily spam warp-panthers. They are, however, the best tank in the game and cheap at the price.

Oh come on, the IS-2 isn't that much slower than the Panther Tank. Yeah, the Panther will beat it in a drag, but that's besides the point. The IS-2 is the fastest heavy tank in the game.

It's in a fragile place right now, you can't buff anything without nerfing something else on it to balance it. It's a powerful tool for those who can use it.

Oh come on, the IS-2 isn't that much slower than the Panther Tank. Yeah, the Panther will beat it in a drag, but that's besides the point. The IS-2 is the fastest heavy tank in the game.

you might want to see the stats or play the game. Panther will circle IS-2 twice before it will do a single turn.

That is like saying SU-85 is as mobile as T-70.

Oh come on, the IS-2 isn't that much slower than the Panther Tank. Yeah, the Panther will beat it in a drag, but that's besides the point. The IS-2 is the fastest heavy tank in the game.

It's in a fragile place right now, you can't buff anything without nerfing something else on it to balance it. It's a powerful tool for those who can use it.

not only that but crappy pathfinding and terrain difference (road, obstacles etc) affect the big tanks a lot. its not the easiest thing to "just circle strafe it".

a teller reduces IS2 health a lot too.

but the point is that it is very hard, too hard, to deal with a unit like it. when a pak (the only weapon that is solely AT and nothing else) gets wrecked in 1-2 hits and when the same pak will not penetrate the tank reliably as well as line of sight being an issue it makes it hard to even think in terms of that units have other units that soft/hard counter it.

at the moment, heavy tanks don't have hard counters unless supersupported and with maybe a recon run as well for los (everyone knows that there is no such thing as 120 spare munitions in the german gameplay to give up just for los).

so why even care when you play 1v1? soviets are going to go heavy on the cons/T2 spam an AT-wall and just keep sending out shocks who are still the craziest unit in the game and easily stall out of a massive wall of AT-guns/SU85 and/or heavy tanks. the natural counter is more infantry since all tanks are hardcountered already but soviets then have 900 spare munitions to drop flames everywhere or drive a completely indestructible tank into your base and melt everything you have in <10 seconds. a single shocks requires at least 2-3 german inf units to deal with so how the hell is the game meant to be played. germans may not be as constricted to an "auto win" playstyle but russians can easily dominate more of the map with less units and therefore can afford to stall for whatever wtf-loltank they want.