Upgunning the soviets - the IS-2

Tried out the IS-2 today. Its actually pretty decent considering it can take damage for whatever units you put behind it (think Churchill). The HE ability is quite strong too. It feels stronger than ISU-152's normal HE shell at the cost of vet and some muni. Near pinpoint accuracy which is very nice when fighting team weapons not in green cover like AT guns or MGs.

By the time you get an IS-2 out, you should have an AT gun or two. Fighting Panthers and other big cats is really a non-issue because you will almost never go up against them alone. Soviets are a combined arms army after all.

psa: the is-2 he shell is accurate because the tank has to be stationary and the AoE is huge, but the isu-152 HE hits just as hard, and at longer ranges


regardless i think i have mastered the art of using the is-2 to a good effect, after a few more games. the anti-infantry capability of the tank is good, IF you are stationary when hitting the enemy, although even then do not expect to randomly snipe x4 models with a single shot

the main issue i had when i made the thread is that panthers can drive up in the firing range of an is-2 and facetank a brawl with low risk, even if the is-2 is higher veterancy

psa: the is-2 he shell is accurate because the tank has to be stationary and the AoE is huge, but the isu-152 HE hits just as hard, and at longer ranges

Frag round has a rather tight scatter, as well as having excellent aoe, in fact better then isu/kv2. But it is expected, since you pay for it

Frag round has a rather tight scatter, as well as having excellent aoe, in fact better then isu/kv2. But it is expected, since you pay for it

in my experience the shell of the is-2 and that of a slightly better than average shot of the kv-2/isu-152 HE shell does more or less the same damage upon a successful hit

regardless AI is not the issue of an is-2 regardless, unless the enemy went for an absurd number of shrecks, who can actually kill you if you are careless

Probably one of the bigger issues with the IS2 is that the 2 commanders it's in don't really help to cover the weaknesses of the IS2.

Shock Rifle Frontline is overloaded with option for anti infantry so the IS2 has to compete with Shocks+KV8 and the IS2 just doesn't stand out there.

Armored Assault is better for the IS2 but even here it's mostly the crew repairs that support the IS2. You can get an IS2 and back it up with T34-85s but it's also just as viable to get multiple T34-85s. Plus this doctrine doesn't offer a whole lot before mid game besides radio interception (which is really good no doubt but it isn't like Guards infantry).

If you compare those to like doctrines that get a Tiger in Ostheer I think there is a notable difference. Panzer Tactician, Frag Bombs (to kill AT walls), and for the most part the different unlocks don't step on each other. There isn't a Tiger doc that also has the Panzer IVJ or an Elefant in there to compete with the Tiger. They are simply a little better aligned to have the Tiger be a core part of the strategy and cover other parts of the game/support the Tiger once it hits the field.

Granted this will not change ever unless Relic randomly drops new commanders. So we're kinda stuck with this problem. The only thing that could really be improved imo is to make it a little bit better against Panthers. A small pen increase or maybe giving it deflection damage (A 122mm shell would damage regardless if it penned or not). It shouldn't curb stomp a Panther but I think it should have a decent advantage against a Panther in a 1v1 and be able to tussle with the Tiger on a bit more even ground.

In terms of firepower, the IS2 is already really good. The problem is getting it to vet 3. If it should get any buffs, just reverting some of the last armor nerf would be enough.

The other problem with it is the commanders. Shock Rifle has too many AI abilities. Armored assault is back heavy and the loiter isn't good. Maybe replacing the loiter and incendiary with 152mm offmap or mark target and improving anti-tank gun ambush tactics (give a bonus to both penetration and damage) would make those commanders competitive.

the last time my IS2 hit something was 2014

And since then you had to wait for the really .... really .... really ....... really ...... long ...... reload.

And just now I had two T34s retreating from fighting one Panzer 4 after it bounced five shots in a row. That was also fun.

Actually is easy to do, but balance team is very afraid
Just give IS2 gun more damage. No more penetration, just damage.
I still don't know why a 76mm gun of a t-34 have the same damage [160] as a 128mm IS2 gun. Same go with the tiger 88mm gun. While somehow the Tiger II 88mm does more damage [240].

Yes, something definitely needs to be done with the IS-2. IS-2 is only in two commanders of which only one is viable. The IS-2 must be made an analogue of the King Tiger and not the Tiger, in order to somehow justify it in such a number of commanders.

Actually is easy to do, but balance team is very afraid
Just give IS2 gun more damage. No more penetration, just damage.
I still don't know why a 76mm gun of a t-34 have the same damage [160] as a 128mm IS2 gun. Same go with the tiger 88mm gun. While somehow the Tiger II 88mm does more damage [240].

Don't try to see logic in the damage model of CoH2. The only logic behind it is balance, and nothing else. Real life stuff is incorporated wherever possible, but if it does not work out, balance will be more important.

Regarding your last point specifically to the tigers:
They do not use the same cannon. The Tiger II's cannon was much more powerful than the Tiger I's. calibre is not the only defining metric for damage.

The IS-2 must be made an analogue of the King Tiger and not the Tiger, in order to somehow justify it in such a number of commanders.

So nondoc range 60, 260 pen Axis TDs when? It's a struggle as is with JP4s to beat IS-2, featuring a racket of bounces. Even had a pair of JP4s defeated by one IS-2. Also 720 MP, 270 FU price tag for IS-2 with all tech tiers (yes even that dastardly skipped T1/2).

There is probably just more times when a Tiger is a viable pick Vs an IS2.

Axis generally has some better AT options, so it's often easier to counter a IS2 Vs a Tiger.

Either you need to know they don't have heavy tank destroyers available, or you can negate them using chocked map.

There is probably just more times when a Tiger is a viable pick Vs an IS2.

Axis generally has some better AT options, so it's often easier to counter a IS2 Vs a Tiger.

Either you need to know they don't have heavy tank destroyers available, or you can negate them using chocked map.

generally allied armor is weaker in terms of raw firepower and/or durability/armor. A tiger fights a T-34/85, or sherman variant, or a KV-1, while an IS-2 would fight a panther or two stugs (both of whom outrange it, mind you), occasionally panzer 4s that it can bully.



Allies have their tank destroyers, who are really good machines, but they do not make the tiger obsolete at all. And the tiger has combat smoke and blitzkrieg, which let it be extremely survivable

So nondoc range 60, 260 pen Axis TDs when? It's a struggle as is with JP4s to beat IS-2, featuring a racket of bounces. Even had a pair of JP4s defeated by one IS-2.

yeeeeeeeeeah.........riiiiiiight........

generally allied armor is weaker in terms of raw firepower and/or durability/armor. A tiger fights a T-34/85, or sherman variant, or a KV-1, while an IS-2 would fight a panther or two stugs (both of whom outrange it, mind you), occasionally panzer 4s that it can bully.



Allies have their tank destroyers, who are really good machines, but they do not make the tiger obsolete at all. And the tiger has combat smoke and blitzkrieg, which let it be extremely survivable

In sort a Tiger has to fight other Tanks and Is-2 has to fight TDs.

I am under the impression you are doing something wrong...

If you force your opponent to go panther, with IS2, and you are able to not walk into pak wall, (when panther will chase and finish) thats in your favor. As the panther might not achive much, it cant push too much because of IS2. So enemy isnt getting more werfers or brumbar, which could really spoil your day.

IS2 is good when you can hide behind shot blockers and get closer to their inf. Where its difficult for paks or casemates to get shots off.

generally allied armor is weaker in terms of raw firepower and/or durability/armor. A tiger fights a T-34/85, or sherman variant, or a KV-1, while an IS-2 would fight a panther or two stugs (both of whom outrange it, mind you), occasionally panzer 4s that it can bully.



Allies have their tank destroyers, who are really good machines, but they do not make the tiger obsolete at all. And the tiger has combat smoke and blitzkrieg, which let it be extremely survivable

Oh yeah there's such an absence of allied TDs 😂 If axis can build a panther to counter an is2 then allies can build a td to counter a tiger.

generally allied armor is weaker in terms of raw firepower and/or durability/armor. A tiger fights a T-34/85, or sherman variant, or a KV-1, while an IS-2 would fight a panther or two stugs (both of whom outrange it, mind you), occasionally panzer 4s that it can bully.



Allies have their tank destroyers, who are really good machines, but they do not make the tiger obsolete at all. And the tiger has combat smoke and blitzkrieg, which let it be extremely survivable

Why do you forget to mention the amazing Jacksons/SU-85s that guarantee a pen against any armor I wonder????????????

Why do you forget to mention the amazing Jacksons/SU-85s that guarantee a pen against any armor I wonder????????????

Yours statement is very wrong

Su-85 pen is 240-220

considering max range since it should be at max range
Not considering the chance to miss, which is around 4-20%

Tank name / armor / Chance to su85 pen
PzIVJ 234 94%
Brumbar 260 85%
Panther 260 85%
Tiger I 300 73%
TigerII 375 58%
Elefant 400 55%
JGTiger 450 48%

Yours statement is very wrong

Su-85 pen is 240-220

considering max range since it should be at max range
Not considering the chance to miss, which is around 4-20%

Tank name / armor / Chance to su85 pen
PzIVJ 234 94%
Brumbar 260 85%
Panther 260 85%
Tiger I 300 73%
TigerII 375 58%
Elefant 400 55%
JGTiger 450 48%

How dare u bring facts and statistics into this... lmao

So nondoc range 60, 260 pen Axis TDs when?

260? Allied TDs have 260 pen at CLOSE range.....

Yours statement is very wrong

Su-85 pen is 240-220

considering max range since it should be at max range
Not considering the chance to miss, which is around 4-20%

Tank name / armor / Chance to su85 pen
PzIVJ 234 94%
Brumbar 260 85%
Panther 260 85%
Tiger I 300 73%
TigerII 375 58%
Elefant 400 55%
JGTiger 450 48%

What are those numbers