RK 43

What happened to Panzerfüsiliers? It does't count because its commander only unit?

Like i said, stck at infantry

Meant to write 160+, my bad.
Fact is that OKW doesn't have AT squads that can be a deterrent to light vehicles like re double zook, Panzergrens or RE, but Raketenwerfer is the worst at guns against light vehicles, while being more or less in line with others against mediums and heavies, is another leftover of bad faction design.

TBH, RE zooks is inaccurate AF and usually leads to RE bleed + zook drops. If against decent opponents ofc, who keep distance and use range against zooks.

TBH, RE zooks is inaccurate AF and usually leads to RE bleed + zook drops. If against decent opponents ofc, who keep distance and use range against zooks.

Not really, they are more accurate than panzershreck at long range, which is realistically what you are gonna fire at, especially against light vehicles and most of the time vehicles in general, but the difference is not gamebreaking, considering panzerschreck higher pen. What's gamebreaking is that there's no stock option to have an at squad that can counter light vehicles. There's several reasons OKW is strong in large gamemodes, where their weaknesses (healing, poor rwaction to light vehicles, poor mainline scaling,...) are mitigated by size, resource inflation and OST teamplayers and fares poorly competitive in 1vs1. One of these is that the only counters to light vehicles are the poorest at gun and a single vehicle in a single tier

you need to work on reading comprehension mate, i said that for the cost of a bar you can turn a pair of the least reliable AT guns into a pair of the best, superior by every metric, toi which you replied you cant survive until a KT without double BAR.


speaking of reading comprehension you relied to me a second time without me posting again yet... i say braindead because you are making it clear you have no idea what you are talking about despite your best efforts to reply, you are more than welcome not to, by the way... however you are right about one thing (put it in your calendar and we can celebrate it happening next year) and that is that we are off topic.


on the...off topic... the USF vet is worse than i though and it needs to be brought in line with the other AT guns, nameley its ROF, which is lower at vet 3 than other AT guns get at vet 2 and half in total... thats unacceptable. furthermore, the super shells should become cheaper either with vet or tech (perhaps with the nade tech?)

at anyrate, back to the rakk.....

sure i have no idea what im talking about if i let you people judge me its all T70's bad micro its his bad decisions and i have i a clear idea what im talking about because you probably dont even go agaisnt half the OKW players i go agaisnt

my idea is that rak 43 is too effective for its avaliblity 2 attack moving raks never miss the targetted vecihle even if the veichle is on the edge of the firing arc and range 2 raks nuke every veichle without the support units abality to retaliate to the point only way to deal with them is to scott spam what i want is to OKW players to be forced to pay for battlegroup HQ and its mechanized upgrade before buying the rak to force OKW players who went with mech HQ first to buy a puma to protect its panzer 2 whenever a stuart or AEC or T70 to deal with it because when 2 raks exist puma is a luxury purchase basically a way of saying im gonna beat you using a unit i dont need if at the cost of MG 34 being at T0 i will be happy for that price because id rather have a faction with a t0 MG rather than a T0 AT gun

raketen is the worst AT in the game, maybe second worst after SOV baby AT, but that thing is actually great for its price and timing. That does not mean that it is trash, but in terms of usability and survivability raketen clearly is behind other AT.

No idea if OP played enough of OKW, but I suggest him to do it more often.

Not really, they are more accurate than panzershreck at long range, which is realistically what you are gonna fire at, especially against light vehicles and most of the time vehicles in general, but the difference is not gamebreaking, considering panzerschreck higher pen. What's gamebreaking is that there's no stock option to have an at squad that can counter light vehicles. There's several reasons OKW is strong in large gamemodes, where their weaknesses (healing, poor rwaction to light vehicles, poor mainline scaling,...) are mitigated by size, resource inflation and OST teamplayers and fares poorly competitive in 1vs1. One of these is that the only counters to light vehicles are the poorest at gun and a single vehicle in a single tier

R.E. also get 20% accuracy at vet 1 making them a good AT unit.

1. Raketen synergy too well with highly armored tank, you can make a dive followed by your raketen and retreat if it turns bad. Since Allied have low armor tank they'll almost always penetrate and require absolutely nothing else to do than attack move while your microing your tank.

The solution:


Its ability to camo or retreat are free. Other Atgun must pay to use their special abilities but OKW no, like if OKW were a munition usage heavy faction... but no.
Retreat as a powerful ability should be costly to reflect its usefulness, 50 munition per retreat would probably solve a big chunk of the -raketen blob into instant retreat- 100 or 150 munition to retreat your raketen would definitely force the player to use it more carefully.
I mean the M1 has to pay 30 munition to increase its penetration with 0 guarantee it will work, retreat always work there are no failure to retreat so putting it at 50 munition would be fair.

Maybe we can look at the speed during the retreat of the raketten. I mean they are pushing a wheeled shreck. Lower speed in this way can punish agressive or reckless raketten plays more.

This ofcourse if raketten retreat with the same speed as regular infantry.

Just go for 1 raket per each player. Brit will leave as soon as 4 UC dies.

I meant T70 guy wants Rak behind a midgame tech. So I asked what Okw can do with 4 UC at the beginning with Sturm & Volk.

The Rak trading actual combat ability for the ability to retreat isn't a good thing for the rak I hope you guys realize. AT Guns shouldn't have to be in positions to retreat in the first place. Retreating your Rak(s) means you don't have AT Guns on the field for the next however many seconds it takes for them to run to base and return meaning your opponent just brings his vehicles up supported by his AT Guns and overpowers you. Rak has retreat out of necessity not out of desire. OKW would be ecstatic about the ability to trade retreat for 60 range because it could do it's job better.

That being said, the Rak is fine and doesn't need to be changed, it's still the worst AT gun of the bunch since it can't zone the same area other At Guns can, but it's perfectly usable ever since they buffed it's range from (40? 45?) to 50 and the retreat adds a little extra unique dynamic that allows it to be a little more aggressive to make up for the poorer coverage.

The Rak trading actual combat ability for the ability to retreat isn't a good thing for the rak I hope you guys realize. AT Guns shouldn't have to be in positions to retreat in the first place. Retreating your Rak(s) means you don't have AT Guns on the field for the next however many seconds it takes for them to run to base and return meaning your opponent just brings his vehicles up supported by his AT Guns and overpowers you. Rak has retreat out of necessity not out of desire. OKW would be ecstatic about the ability to trade retreat for 60 range because it could do it's job better.

That being said, the Rak is fine and doesn't need to be changed, it's still the worst AT gun of the bunch since it can't zone the same area other At Guns can, but it's perfectly usable ever since they buffed it's range from (40? 45?) to 50 and the retreat adds a little extra unique dynamic that allows it to be a little more aggressive to make up for the poorer coverage.

The Rak range got buffed from 50 to 55. So at atm it is "missing" 5 meters of range while having a 10° larger firing cone compared to the PaK40.
It has slightly lower penetration at both vet0 and vet3 that does not matter when facing stock Allied tanks (except for Churchill and Comet). And even against heavier armor you lose about 5% pen chance at most. ROF is same to slightly worse at vet.

The current mechanics force it to be slightly more aggressive (with retreat allowing this aggression) than other ATGs, which fits OKWs play style. I also would not say that the Rak has less field presence. If you lose 1-2 models as UKF/USF/OST on your PaK, depending on the map size you're in for a long trip home. The Rak can at least shorten the way home. And depending on your tech choice, OKW (together with USF) has the easiest time for forward reinforcements, since parts of those are integrated into the main teching system without the need to shell out additional resources.

The Rak trading actual combat ability for the ability to retreat isn't a good thing for the rak I hope you guys realize.

That's incorrect, it has both. Its easily on pair with ZiS post all the changes it got.

AT Guns shouldn't have to be in positions to retreat in the first place. Retreating your Rak(s) means you don't have AT Guns on the field for the next however many seconds it takes for them to run to base and return meaning your opponent just brings his vehicles up supported by his AT Guns and overpowers you. Rak has retreat out of necessity not out of desire. OKW would be ecstatic about the ability to trade retreat for 60 range because it could do it's job better.

And while OKW has a retreated rak at base, healing and reinforcing, all other factions have one decrewed, on the field, being shot by a tank that decrewed it.

Retreat is a MASSIVE advantage to preserve vet and resources you'd have to use on rebuilding it as other faction. It also already gas 55 range, it really doesn't need any more nor can make a use out of it alone.

That being said, the Rak is fine and doesn't need to be changed, it's still the worst AT gun of the bunch since it can't zone the same area other At Guns can, but it's perfectly usable ever since they buffed it's range from (40? 45?) to 50 and the retreat adds a little extra unique dynamic that allows it to be a little more aggressive to make up for the poorer coverage.

You clearly have no idea what you were talking about in the whole post.
Rank always had 50 range, it got buffed to 55 and 5th man.

Its nowhere near being worst, its EASIEST to vet up, preserve that vet and live long enough to utilize bonuses while all the other stats but range are on pair or superior to ZiS-3.

Btw, just looking at the camo bonus of the Raketenwerfer:

Is there any scenario where the damage bonus of the first shot fired from camo is actually useful?
You deal 200 damage instead of 160. The only way this will ever have effect is two camouflaged Raks firing at a T70, but this is almost going to make a difference in a real game. Other scenarios? Double Rak on dozer Sherman? But by far and large, that's about it?
I think this could be changed to something more useful. +100% accuracy for a guaranteed first hit or so. I'm not saying the Rak really needs it, but those additional 40 damage seem fairly useless, even if you run around with two of them at all times.

Btw, just looking at the camo bonus of the Raketenwerfer:

Is there any scenario where the damage bonus of the first shot fired from camo is actually useful?
You deal 200 damage instead of 160. The only way this will ever have effect is two camouflaged Raks firing at a T70, but this is almost going to make a difference in a real game. Other scenarios? Double Rak on dozer Sherman? But by far and large, that's about it?
I think this could be changed to something more useful. +100% accuracy for a guaranteed first hit or so. I'm not saying the Rak really needs it, but those additional 40 damage seem fairly useless, even if you run around with two of them at all times.

I think I suggested changing the dmg to accuracy a while back, not the only one with the idea either, but the suggested change did not get much traction. You've already answered your question, there are no realistic situations where the damage comes in handy. With how easy this thing is decrewed, getting/keeping vet III raks is a feat in itself imho. In about 100 3v3+ games I've managed to keep a vet III RW a handful of times.

To be honest I would suggest reworking the camouflage first strike bonus to a general accuracy and rotation speed increase, like the other AT guns. RW camo's just too unwieldy and unreliable outside of pre-prepared deathtraps which the target player deserves to die in if they fall for it imho.

Btw, just looking at the camo bonus of the Raketenwerfer:

Is there any scenario where the damage bonus of the first shot fired from camo is actually useful?
You deal 200 damage instead of 160. The only way this will ever have effect is two camouflaged Raks firing at a T70, but this is almost going to make a difference in a real game. Other scenarios? Double Rak on dozer Sherman? But by far and large, that's about it?
I think this could be changed to something more useful. +100% accuracy for a guaranteed first hit or so. I'm not saying the Rak really needs it, but those additional 40 damage seem fairly useless, even if you run around with two of them at all times.

RW vet bonuses should be looked at.

Most of them are related to camo mechanism making garrison even less desired.
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The camo mechanism itself is very player unfriendly since it overrides movement commands and can make the unit stop when one want it move or move when one want it stop. It simply need to change.

The retreat mechanism is simply overrated since it suffers from the same death loop as maxim (and some other hmgs).

Btw, just looking at the camo bonus of the Raketenwerfer:

Is there any scenario where the damage bonus of the first shot fired from camo is actually useful?
You deal 200 damage instead of 160. The only way this will ever have effect is two camouflaged Raks firing at a T70, but this is almost going to make a difference in a real game. Other scenarios? Double Rak on dozer Sherman? But by far and large, that's about it?
I think this could be changed to something more useful. +100% accuracy for a guaranteed first hit or so. I'm not saying the Rak really needs it, but those additional 40 damage seem fairly useless, even if you run around with two of them at all times.

I guess it would be situational with allowing faust snare threshold for certain tanks.

That's incorrect, it has both. Its easily on pair with ZiS post all the changes it got.

I disagree, The Zis brings 60 range and LAB to make up for it's passable AT ability which is why the Zis is so highly valued. if you disagree that LAB is good you're just objectively wrong at this point. Camo on the Rak is not even close to being on par as an ability since it doesn't effectively do anything relevant while being a pain in the ass to use to the point that no one bothers. If you want to go even further you can also mention 6 men and merge in semi-rare instances being a massive boon for keeping the Zis alive in the middle of a fight as well which I find is significantly more valuable than simply leaving and losing your AT Gun capability entirely for the next 20-30 seconds.

And while OKW has a retreated rak at base, healing and reinforcing, all other factions have one decrewed, on the field, being shot by a tank that decrewed it.

Retreat is a MASSIVE advantage to preserve vet and resources you'd have to use on rebuilding it as other faction. It also already gas 55 range, it really doesn't need any more nor can make a use out of it alone.

And the question here, what happened that caused you to lose your AT Weapon in the first place where your opponents tank can freely drive in and kill it. Where is your support? Your Armor? Your Infantry to Snare? Mines? Fact is that if you're in a position to lose your AT Gun/retreat your Rak with no contest you fucked up pretty bad on a fundamental level and if it happens often enough that it becomes a reoccurring problem there's some other issue going on with your play independent to whether your At Gun can retreat.

On top of that, even if you do have your AT Gun decrewed, whatever killed it isn't usually in a position to follow up and destroy it (Infantry, Rocket Artillery, Offmap, even Tanks if contested.) So you're able to go pick it back up a majority of the time in a close game or you atleast trade a vehicle for it.

You clearly have no idea what you were talking about in the whole post.
Rank always had 50 range, it got buffed to 55 and 5th man.

Excuse me for not knowing the arbitrary numbers off the top of my head. That's something I'd expect to hear from Vipper. It has less range is the point that you're intentionally acting obtuse on. Fact is that it trades Range for Survivability which makes it a worse tool for area denial, but it's still fine because unlike the original iteration it can still function as an AT Gun and the extra survivability has it's merits in certain situations.