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UKF in ML so far...

19 Apr 2021, 06:26 AM
#41
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 05:45 AMmrgame2

imo as i said to reduce churchill main gun damage to 120 and revert the pop cap nerf. that should give ukf a longer late game while maintaining churchill AI damage sponge role


What you are saying is like below.

Why not just remove HMG from Panther, to make it work as a other TD. Other TD (Jackson/Firefly/su-85) clearly lacks any AI & high armor. It's not fair for panther to have all.

How can it wipe 6 pounder & airborne faster than Comet right? No fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIxjdDb0CjE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg0u1IAuKeQ
19 Apr 2021, 06:29 AM
#42
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



You should browse more, not just the week I provided.

For now, only March is available to be seen as a month stat. https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1614556800/1v1/wermacht

Clearly the worst WR 1v1 ~ 4v4.

And idea of making one of the latest tank dmg to 120 is the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever seen. You are saying the latest tech tank with very slow movility needs to shoot & penetrate 6 shots to kill even P4?

sigh...


the churchill pop cap nerf came after a 1v1 exhibition game where ukf spammed 3 churchill and crush the wehr player iirc. the wehr had couple of p4 and stugs.

that's why a 120 damage main gun but with 3 on the field, it is still terrifying
MMX
19 Apr 2021, 06:34 AM
#43
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 06:29 AMmrgame2


the churchill pop cap nerf came after a 1v1 exhibition game where ukf spammed 3 churchill and crush the wehr player iirc. the wehr had couple of p4 and stugs.

that's why a 120 damage main gun but with 3 on the field, it is still terrifying


sorry to be so blunt, but you've clearly no idea what you're talking about.
the churchill is already overshadowed by the comet, yet you think it's a great idea to nerf it even further (and this hard)?
19 Apr 2021, 06:37 AM
#44
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 06:29 AMmrgame2


the churchill pop cap nerf came after a 1v1 exhibition game where ukf spammed 3 churchill and crush the wehr player iirc. the wehr had couple of p4 and stugs.

that's why a 120 damage main gun but with 3 on the field, it is still terrifying


In most cases, 3 latest tech tank == win.

Think about it how many times have you seen Axis lossing after stacking 3 panther? Unless Axis lost all inf. while doing so, 3 Panther can dominate in 1v1.

Yes, same thing applies to the Comet or Churchil especially when opponent don't have Panther (Not sure what game you've seen, but circumstance indicates that axis player had a hard time for whole gmae. If not, there is no point of stacking p4 & stug without tier4)
19 Apr 2021, 06:50 AM
#45
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 06:34 AMMMX


sorry to be so blunt, but you've clearly no idea what you're talking about.
the churchill is already overshadowed by the comet, yet you think it's a great idea to nerf it even further (and this hard)?


that's because comet got some tuning buffs. before that, churchill were more common in 1v1 and 2v2, and were very strong. it culminating to that game with triple churchill that got its pop cap nerf
19 Apr 2021, 06:55 AM
#46
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



In most cases, 3 latest tech tank == win.

Think about it how many times have you seen Axis lossing after stacking 3 panther? Unless Axis lost all inf. while doing so, 3 Panther can dominate in 1v1.

Yes, same thing applies to the Comet or Churchil especially when opponent don't have Panther (Not sure what game you've seen, but circumstance indicates that axis player had a hard time for whole gmae. If not, there is no point of stacking p4 & stug without tier4)


yes but you can't unlikely to field 3 churchill now. so reverting the popcap and lowering the damage output to be more AI oriented seems better. ukf have firefly and buff piat now.

ukf is about hardy late game to dig in and drain the vp. so we can approach as that again

3 panthers are worthless though...
19 Apr 2021, 06:58 AM
#47
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 06:55 AMmrgame2


yes but you can't unlikely to field 3 churchill now. so reverting the popcap and lowering the damage output to be more AI oriented seems better. ukf have firefly and buff piat now.


OMG.....

Why not just remove UKF?

Or better remove Panther from OST?

They have the best AT & panzershreck. And cost efficient stug. Deal Tank with them and go for Brummbar for AI.


You are clearly not thinking while writing.
19 Apr 2021, 07:01 AM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



What you are saying is like below.

Why not just remove HMG from Panther, to make it work as a other TD. Other TD (Jackson/Firefly/su-85) clearly lacks any AI & high armor. It's not fair for panther to have all.

1) Stug also has MG upgrade and removing MG from Panther will not make it "work as Other TD" there many other differences between the units.

2) FF has a coaxial it is not great, it does not "lack any AI"


How can it wipe 6 pounder & airborne faster than Comet right? No fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIxjdDb0CjE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg0u1IAuKeQ

Comet had grenades and WP to deal with ATG so the comparison is rather misleading.
19 Apr 2021, 07:03 AM
#49
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:01 AMVipper

1) Stug also has MG upgrade and removing MG from Panther will not make it "work as Other TD" there many other differences between the units.

2) FF has a coaxial it is not great, it does not "lack any AI"


Comet had grenades and WP to deal with ATG so the comparison is rather misleading.


Just to make it clear that post & last post from me was to show sarcasm & mirroring. Not to be meant word-by-word.

Hope you understand my mind blown with seeing suggestion to make latest tank dmg 120.
19 Apr 2021, 07:06 AM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Just to make it clear that post & last post from me was to show sarcasm & mirroring. Not to be meant word-by-word.

Hope you understand my mind blown with seeing suggestion to make latest tank dmg 120.

"Latest tank" does not really mean much since T-34/76 and Panther can both be considered "Latest tank".

Churchill has a cost,a timing and role that weight more than the title "Latest tank".
MMX
19 Apr 2021, 07:22 AM
#51
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:06 AMVipper

"Latest tank" does not really mean much since T-34/76 and Panther can both be considered "Latest tank".

Churchill has a cost,a timing and role that weight more than the title "Latest tank".


not sure why you're arguing semantics here honestly. i hope you'd agree that reducing the churchill's main gun to 120 damage would be quite a stupid move, no matter how early or late it comes out with respect to other tanks
19 Apr 2021, 07:39 AM
#52
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:22 AMMMX


not sure why you're arguing semantics here honestly.

And I am not sure why you are repeating something you have read without actually processing if it is true or not.

Lets try to get the facts straight, if someone uses the title "latest tank" as an argument he is arguing semantics and not me. On contrary I have pointed out that the title does not mean much.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:22 AMMMX

i hope you'd agree that reducing the churchill's main gun to 120 damage would be quite a stupid move, no matter how early or late it comes out with respect to other tanks

Churchill has issues and the MOD team decided to hide them under the rag by reducing the number of Churchill one can maintain with absurdly an high pop.

Part of it problem is that it combines very HP pool, defensive smoke, high maneuverability, while it can still dish out adequate damage both in AI and AT.

Is it my opinion that in need 120 damage and lower pop? it wouldn't be the solution I would choose but I am not happy with the current implementation either.

Imo the unit should be designed so that it workes with supporting unit and those units would dish out the damage. It damage output could be focused either in AI or AT.

That desing would even make the unit to be closer to it real life design.
19 Apr 2021, 07:40 AM
#53
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

120 is just a start, we can then explore its accuracy aoe against clump up weapon teams and infantry.

we want to reduce its strength against tank and make it more hardy as a front line infantry clearing tank, as its unit description said.

currently it is as vipper said, rather mobile, high health armor, self repairing and quite fast targeting turret rof, 2-3 churchy is big threat
19 Apr 2021, 08:05 AM
#54
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:40 AMmrgame2
120 is just a start, we can then explore its accuracy aoe against clump up weapon teams and infantry.

we want to reduce its strength against tank and make it more hardy as a front line infantry clearing tank, as its unit description said.

currently it is as vipper said, rather mobile, high health armor, self repairing and quite fast targeting turret rof, 2-3 churchy is big threat



Why don't you just dig a graveyard for the churchil?
19 Apr 2021, 08:09 AM
#55
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794




Why don't you just dig a graveyard for the churchil?


you mean hull down for it? or digging trenches for IS sorta like bd sherman?
could be an interesting idea to reinforce ukf qualities
19 Apr 2021, 08:11 AM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 07:40 AMmrgame2
we want to reduce its strength against tank and make it more hardy as a front line infantry clearing tank, as its unit description said.

Infantry support tank does not mean a tank dedicated to killing infantry.

It means a tank that is slow and armored enough to advance together with infantry.

Also, AVRE, you are describing AVRE here.
19 Apr 2021, 08:13 AM
#57
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 08:11 AMKatitof

Infantry support tank does not mean a tank dedicated to killing infantry.

It means a tank that is slow and armored enough to advance together with infantry.

Also, AVRE, you are describing AVRE here.


avre acts as strong alpha damage while im thinking of consistent damage and harassing on the front line using stock units. it could work
19 Apr 2021, 08:15 AM
#58
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 08:13 AMmrgame2


avre acts as strong alpha damage while im thinking of consistent damage and harassing on the front line using stock units. it could work

Now you are describing croc.
19 Apr 2021, 08:17 AM
#59
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Churchill cant be properly buffed, because both OKW and Ostheer are lacking of proper heavy tank counter, aside from Panther wich is on its own in a competly different tier unit in terms of its pricing. Elephant and JTiger are not usable in 1v1.

Both StuG and JP4 while having decent penetration, are not Heavy tank counters, or, if there are, then we can say that T34\Sherman\Cromwell can counter Panthers because they have chance of penetrating its frontal armor.

Therefor the fact that Churchill is just fat and armored is pretty much the only way it can work, it cant be a valid chose over Comet in terms of power without being litteraly almost unstoppable. Hell, KV-1 and 8 are giving insane headache, just because the only way to force them back at their timing - AT gun walling, which is MP heavy and weakens your over-all army roster significantly.

If both StuG and JP4 were at least close in terms of penetration to Allied counter parts, then pretty much any Allied heavy tank could have received propper buffs instanly.

19 Apr 2021, 08:19 AM
#60
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2021, 08:15 AMKatitof

Now you are describing croc.


well yes, you can use croc or avre with comet
or regular 120 double church hill with firefly

i think synergy is good and open more options to ukf players
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