Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback
1 May 2021, 09:09 AM
#541
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One has to start by moving ST to another commander.
1 May 2021, 09:14 AM
#542
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
One has to start by moving ST to another commander.
That would also be a nice solution. But it won't happen, sadly.
1 May 2021, 09:18 AM
#543
Posts: 1660
Alternatively remove manual reload, make it reload automatically and with no animation, and buff health and armor to Churchill Avre levels and change the rocket to have same arc and size/hitbox like its mortar
1 May 2021, 09:30 AM
#544
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
honestly, has anyone complaining about the ST tried it a bit in the new patch, yet? i found the revamped projectile much easier to aim and a vast improvement over the live version in every respect. it will still collide on occasion with random shot blockers but those instances are much rarer now.
plus, people seem to overlook the vet1 ability for whatever reason. yes it cost munitions and yes it auto-aims, but otherwise it's rather decent and can be used while reloading the main gun.
plus, people seem to overlook the vet1 ability for whatever reason. yes it cost munitions and yes it auto-aims, but otherwise it's rather decent and can be used while reloading the main gun.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
1 May 2021, 09:39 AM
#545
Posts: 1660
honestly, has anyone complaining about the ST tried it a bit in the new patch, yet?
Yes
They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse
1 May 2021, 09:47 AM
#546
Posts: 472
Yes
They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse
Have you seen tightrops video? It's only .15 sec difference(slower) in max range and it gets actually faster as it gets to minimum range up to +1 sec.
1 May 2021, 09:50 AM
#547
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
Yes
They have a slightly easier time with targets uphill and green cover objects, because the slower rocket makes the projectile rise on the vertical faster per horizontal distance covered. It will still collide like before most of the time, and now the slower projectile makes it even harder to target enemies, so when it works it's actually worse
fair enough. the reduced aim time remedies the slower projectile somewhat, though.
i'd still take the beta ST over the live version at any day.
EDIT: what leithianz said in the post above
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
1 May 2021, 10:00 AM
#548
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
fair enough. the reduced aim time remedies the slower projectile somewhat, though.
i'd still take the beta ST over the live version at any day.
EDIT: what leithianz said in the post above
Fair enough! Perfomance of the ST will always be judjed controversly. Some players like it, other don't.
But I think there is also the aspect of fit to the commander:
2 of 3 abilities to improve the performance of your tanks can't be used by the ST. That's bad synergy.
Imo it would be a win-win Situation if the ST would be moved. EA could be much better without it and another 2nd tier commander would be more attractive if the ST would be in the doctrine.
Brits got plenty of ability and unit swaps in this Version. Why can't we not at least test to move the ST to Scavenge (for Nades) or Firestorm (for indendiary Munition)?
1 May 2021, 10:07 AM
#549
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying the approach of @A. Soldier video
Of course there's something wrong with it. Sure it looks cool and all, but having a mobile heavily armored B4 would be totally and utterly imbalanced.
not to mention on preferably flat terrain if you want to hit something with it
Lots of units are map or area dependant. You can't use an Elefant or ISU properly in city maps either. That's nothing unique to the Sturmtiger even though people like to pretend that it is for some reason.
1 May 2021, 10:18 AM
#550
Posts: 240
Is it completely out of the question to give the ST some of its range back?
Like changing it from 35 -> 40. Giving it a chance to catch infantry off-guard?
Like changing it from 35 -> 40. Giving it a chance to catch infantry off-guard?
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
1 May 2021, 10:31 AM
#551
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Lots of units are map or area dependant. You can't use an Elefant or ISU properly in city maps either. That's nothing unique to the Sturmtiger even though people like to pretend that it is for some reason.
These are different issues though.
In the first case units do not work well because it is intended by map design. In the latter case the ST does not work because if faulty and weird collision detection, which is mostly beyond the player's control. Not to mention that elevations are really really hard to see in the game. If that were a real argument then many maps would not have to be flattened.
Is it completely out of the question to give the ST some of its range back?
Like changing it from 35 -> 40. Giving it a chance to catch infantry off-guard?
That is already implemented with vet (albeit vet4)
1 May 2021, 10:41 AM
#552
Posts: 240
That is already implemented with vet (albeit vet4)
Obviously but ofc. I meant it in the way of it being stock or maybe vet 1 or 2. Ever since the vehicle damage was tuned down (and its stock range) it has become quite tricky to vet that beast. Nothing about the unit is really practical, except as a deterrent but hitting nothing does not give you vet.
At least with vet1 you have some damage to dish out against its designated target, although I rather go for non-doc measures to deal with blobs or hard to kill vetted infantry rather than investing into the ST.
The Ruleset is only a guideline, and are not actually the Rules. This is .org
1 May 2021, 11:12 AM
#553
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
In order for ST to work as SPG it would need to role change.
Instead of squad wiping machine it would have to redesigned as for more utility and wiping power.
Change could include hard cap on killing entities, temp circuital vs vehicles infatry/support weapons ability to heavily damage structures, critical damage on emplacements, more consistent fighting capabilities without firing rocket.....
Instead of squad wiping machine it would have to redesigned as for more utility and wiping power.
Change could include hard cap on killing entities, temp circuital vs vehicles infatry/support weapons ability to heavily damage structures, critical damage on emplacements, more consistent fighting capabilities without firing rocket.....
1 May 2021, 12:07 PM
#554
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I think Tightrope's tests should take away any worries about the Sturmtiger.
Elevation and collision issues seem to be pretty much completely fixed.
19:05m
Combined with all the small QoL buffs it got over the last patches, I can genuinely see it becoming too powerful now.
Elevation and collision issues seem to be pretty much completely fixed.
19:05m
Combined with all the small QoL buffs it got over the last patches, I can genuinely see it becoming too powerful now.
1 May 2021, 12:30 PM
#555
Posts: 1660
Have you seen tightrops video? It's only .15 sec difference(slower) in max range and it gets actually faster as it gets to minimum range up to +1 sec.
The difference with cutting delay aim time and increasing travel shot is that you can't cancel the shot once it fired.
If the collision issue never existed, the unit would be definetly weaker now.
It should have more armor, maybe with a mobility nerf, and play as an actual frontline tank with suppression to infantry and capped model deaths on main gun rather than a cheesy shotgun that wipes.
Or really slow artillery piece
the unit will never be balanced as it is
1 May 2021, 12:34 PM
#556
Posts: 1660
I think Tightrope's tests should take away any worries about the Sturmtiger.
Elevation and collision issues seem to be pretty much completely fixed.
19:05m
Combined with all the small QoL buffs it got over the last patches, I can genuinely see it becoming too powerful now.
Nvm
1 May 2021, 13:24 PM
#557
Posts: 731
One has to start by moving ST to another commander.
Switch ST and JT，then increase ST range to about 50-80 be middle--long range artillery unit，maybe could work（maybe should lock out other heavy）
1 May 2021, 13:30 PM
#558
Posts: 1660
Switch ST and JT，then increase ST range to about 50-80 be middle--long range artillery unit，maybe could work（maybe should lock out other heavy）
Jt with heat is an issue
I think it would benefit more from switching with Cmd Panther
The team doesn't like the idea of the ST as artillery piece
I think it could at least use a rework to become a lower ROF Brummbar, starting from removing manual reload and trading health for front armor
1 May 2021, 16:04 PM
#559
Posts: 5279
Yeah I noticed it STILL collides, on top of having a slower rocket, meaning that it's actually straight up worse.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying the approach of @A. Soldier video, since the rocket is slow and artillery is highlighted in the minimap the moment it starts a barrage.
Tightrope did a segment on the ST in his video about these patch notes, the new one not only hits faster but is immensely more reliable. It shot over all the obstacles in his tests and he's also determined that it hits a smudge faster at max range because of the shorted aim time.
Frankly it looks half decent now.
Edit: I see now it was linked further in the thread.
#stalinwept
1 May 2021, 17:24 PM
#560
Posts: 479
The Sturmtiger changes make it actually good, but I noticed that the vehicle would get abandoned if hit while reloading. I thought that was changed in the past so not sure if that is a bug or not.
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