Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

No more LMG on USF troops pls.

M1 C is not would be a upgrade to Garands with better far DPS not a scoped Carbine.

If I am not mistaken they should already exist in the game.
(maybe this weapon m1a1_carbine_rifleman_spec_mp I am not sure)

Seriously man? USF isn't supposed to have one of the most basic upgrades(a long range LMG with high stationary DPS?) Why? Just why????

Nice to see a civil discussion about history here unlike on the steam forums. Very informative on the Thompson as well. Thank you!

Thank you.

The Tommy gun/Chicago Typewriter is pretty much my favorite US weapon because of it's historical and cultural value.

Of course there are other weapons that were also well known in the gangster era as well like the BAR/Colt Monitor but nothing really comes close to the first versions of the Thompson with it's foregrip and drum magazine.

Hell even Churchill has a very popular picture holding one:

The Greyhound is close to a T-70 in terms of AI power. Its 4 CP timing is fine in 1v1. It needs that gate otherwise it would become too powerful. It was heavy meta before Mechanized took over. It's too bad that 4 CPs is too late for teamgames, but you can't buff its timing without potentially breaking it in 1v1. So there's not much to be done. Some units are simply only good in one mode.

Couldn't you theoretically tinker with Main Gun/50 Cal DPS and gate some of it's AI potential behind tech? For example slightly improve the main gun so that vanilla Greyhound is viable at a slightly earlier timing and gate the 50 Cal behind Major tech so that Greyhound isn't too oppressive early on. IMO it would go a long way to helping the commander so that Greyhound isn't so dependent on munitions to be good when the rest of the commander abilities also require munitions- making it rather difficult to fully utilize this commander.

Edit #1 I suppose you could also make the 50 Cal a Vet 2/3 requirement where it's only available/Free? after you hit that Vet.

Edit #2 Another idea would be to increase main gun damage at Vet 1 so that you can't abuse Greyhound as emergency AT but it scales better in that department.

Seriously man? USF isn't supposed to have one of the most basic upgrades(a long range LMG with high stationary DPS?) Why? Just why????

I mean, if there can be only 1 Commander with the m1919, i will want it to be the rifle company. The upgrade is already well justified in existed commander and being way easier to implement than creating a new weapon (what is happening with the vicker k), not to mention that suggesting a carbine to be superior at long range to a full power rifle feel way too off .

I believe a pfusilier-like sett up on rm will create much more issue than some imagination problem with m1919.

Couldn't you theoretically tinker with Main Gun/50 Cal DPS and gate some of it's AI potential behind tech? For example slightly improve the main gun so that vanilla Greyhound is viable at a slightly earlier timing and gate the 50 Cal behind Major tech so that Greyhound isn't too oppressive early on. IMO it would go a long way to helping the commander so that Greyhound isn't so dependent on munitions to be good when the rest of the commander abilities also require munitions- making it rather difficult to fully utilize this commander. Edit I suppose you could also make the 50 Cal a Vet 2/3 requirement where it's only available/Free? after you hit that Vet.

I'd asked for something like this as well.

Trading some lethality to tie it to an earlier timing and tech makes sense imo.

Other possibilities:
* Hide the canister shot or the 50cal behind vet 1.
* Bring its HP in line with a Armor Skirted M20. This would make it a massive glass cannon, but without the benefit of smoke pots like the M20.

I'd asked for something like this as well.

Trading some lethality to tie it to an earlier timing and tech makes sense imo.

Other possibilities:
* Hide the canister shot or the 50cal behind vet 1.
* Bring its HP in line with a Armor Skirted M20. This would make it a massive glass cannon, but without the benefit of smoke pots like the M20.

So... turn it back into what it was before it was buffed, but somehow even weaker?
What would that achieve outside of making it completely irrelevant unit outclassed by Stuart and M15?

I'd asked for something like this as well.

Trading some lethality to tie it to an earlier timing and tech makes sense imo.

Other possibilities:
* Hide the canister shot or the 50cal behind vet 1.
* Bring its HP in line with a Armor Skirted M20. This would make it a massive glass cannon, but without the benefit of smoke pots like the M20.

How about a overall nerf to DPS that is restored once the unit hits Vet 1? Like 10% to reload and range.

Seriously man? USF isn't supposed to have one of the most basic upgrades(a long range LMG with high stationary DPS?) Why? Just why????

Because of relative positioning, mainlines of each faction are designed to trade optimal in certain range.

For the same reason axis mainline infatry should not have an upgrade that allowed them to beat double bar riflemen at mid range.

So... turn it back into what it was before it was buffed, but somehow even weaker?
What would that achieve outside of making it completely irrelevant unit outclassed by Stuart and M15?

Depends on what changes we are talking about.

Its lethality is heavily dependent on being stationary (almost all the damage is in the 50cal...which has 0.375 moving accuracy) and the Canister Shot. Locking away either the Canister shot or some of the DPS behind vet would still leave it with its excellent HP, Speed, and Vision.

Likewise if you go after its survivability, its going to depend on how much is taken away. A Greyhound with canister and 50cal at a Stuart timing is going to be very scary, and not a lot of AT weapons will be on the field at that time. (222 would actually be able to hunt and kill it though, Greyhound only narrowly wins with its current stats)

Depends on what changes we are talking about.

Its lethality is heavily dependent on being stationary (almost all the damage is in the 50cal...which has 0.375 moving accuracy) and the Canister Shot. Locking away either the Canister shot or some of the DPS behind vet would still leave it with its excellent HP, Speed, and Vision.

Likewise if you go after its survivability, its going to depend on how much is taken away. A Greyhound with canister and 50cal at a Stuart timing is going to be very scary, and not a lot of AT weapons will be on the field at that time. (222 would actually be able to hunt and kill it though, Greyhound only narrowly wins with its current stats)

Your reasoning seems quite weak, everything you said minus health can easily be gated behind Vet. Speed and vision Vet 1, restore DPS behind Vet2. The fact that a 222 can scare it off while costing half the gas is plenty. Ost has faust, At gun and mine along with shrek's available. If the player chooses to invest or not is up to them. Just as a USF player goes LT they made a decision to forgo AT gun. OKW is an even better position to fight back with Lucas, puma, faust, shrek and rak.
Also canister shot is fairly useless due to its range. You are setting yourself up for snare

A Greyhound with canister and 50cal at a Stuart timing is going to be very scary...

Canister shot is a munition trap. The performance is so weak for its price. I tried it mutiple times versus multiple blobbed squads in cheat mode and the outcome is pretty disillusioning. Take into account what a high risk you are taking by diving in. The range is so short that the targeted unit itself can snare you. Very situational ability. Better upgrading Bars, throwing grenades and upgrading 50.cal for M8 itself. Recon is such a munition hungry company. You will need the munition for airdrop of Reserve Paradrop with howitzer and weapon upgrade plus suppression ability for Paratroops too. Reserve Paras can lay regular mines in addition, a single well placed mine can be so much of a game changer. Do not waste your munition for canister shot.

I think it's important that it is the public what kind of player you are, i.e. team games or 1v1, whether you play a lot or not. Otherwise one would not recognize the writer's motives. To me, I haven't actively played 1v1 for a good 1 year. But follow the tournaments and often watch 1v1 games in spectator mode, I know the current metas. In my day I was top 100 with all factions. I still play team games with friends from time to time (4v4) so ​​we're around the top 50. In addition, one should express my thanks to the people from the community who update, patch and balance the game. Since they are not paid for it and they sacrifice free time for it, one should not forget that. Hope my English is not too bad

Mechanized Company
With the loss of the dozer blade upgrade, the doctrine loses its usefulness as compensation I would put the mortar halftrack together with the truck in a passive ability (nobody needs the half-track vehicle to come out or stay inside anyway). Fill the empty command slot with the Phosphor Barrage from the Rifle company. Since you mostly build Shermans and then try to rush because you don't have an offmap in the doc (truck has one but usually doesn't survive that long), paks are a thread, the offmap fit in the playstyle.

Armor Company
Together with the buff of the bulldozer, the docs should at least be played more often in team games. So that the value is increased and maybe the doc is playable in 1v1, I would suggest a change to the M10. The M10 should be a rush tank, that means it has hardly any penetration at long range but high damage output. The M10 already has a good standard speed and the ability to do so. The damage should be around 240 (KT damage). However, since the penetration should be so small, it has to come to the side or very close in order to cause damage. So that the tank is not spammed in team games you have to increase the cost to 100 fuel and the popcap to 12 (Guideline). In addition, the tank should have 400 hit points (T70, go down with 3 shoots).This also applies to the British M10.

240mm Barrage
It looks very nice compared to the railroad artillery.

Cavalry Riflemen
Yeah why not.

Combined Arms
Compared to the other ability (Radio Silence, Valiant Assault, For the Motherland), the buffs are good and the ability is not too expensive.

Fired Up
Right direction (Sprint 1cp), reduce the cost to 10 mun and the duration to 5s, to bring the ability in line with sprint.

Heavy Cavalry Company Smoke Barrage
Yeah why not.

IR Pathfinder Barrage
Nice too see that change.

M26 Pershing
In most games you have a lot of ammunition available with the doctrine that you don't use. As one does not like to build a second echolon the Pershing should have self-repair (Okw stats). Otherwise the changes look good.

M4A3 Sherman 105mm Dozer
The changes are going in the right direction. But why not the same stats ​​as the Brumbär? Bulldozer is bound to a Commander.You have to tech and build just like the Brumbär.

M4A3 Sherman Calliope
The change is good because you should be punished if you don't take care of the Calliope. However, the Calliope should be compared to the cost of the other rocket arty.

M4A3 Sherman E8
The changes are going in the right direction. The Easy 8 should be something like the Comet. To the changes I would add a little higher armor because it is too lightly armored compared to the Comet and Phanter (+10). Rest look nice.

M8 Greyhound Canister Shot
Yeah why not.

Mortar Half-Track WP Shells
Looks good as the cost of all flame barriers has been reduced.

P-47 Strafing Run
Yeah why not.

Pathfinders (All Variants)
Bonus against sniper is a good change a good positioning should be rewarded. In team games you often see bloobs with 3 Pathfinders. Since they have a high visibility you can see Mgs and then you can put Arty on it. Mgs are no longer used as counters. You can hardly attack this bloob with your own inf, since the Pathfinder have a high damage output both in longer range and closer range. The snipe passive ability where every model can be snipped under 50% increases their fighting strength. You also have 2 weapon slots (bars).
The damage should be reduced to close range (weaker in the early game) and a maximum of 2 squads should be available. The strategy should only allow Pathfinder to do this, but it reduces the bloob strength.

Rangers
There is no reason why you shouldn't upgrade the Rangers because Thompsen are very strong or the 3 elite bazookas. But the changes are fine as they can allow for a different style of play.

Rear Echelon Rifle Grenades
Good to see that these skills are no longer a auto ability. A UI icon for the Echolon Squad would be good that you can see which squad is upgraded. In addition, you should increase the strength a little bit, but also the cooldown.

Reserve Armor
The upgrade made the Sherman extremely strong in terms of survivability. What could be very annoying, especially in 1v1. The 76 Sherman is good as it is.

Rifle Company Advanced Infantry Gear
The change with the receive accurancy is good. However, as with the Sturmpio, the flamethrower and the Mieneswipper should be possible together.

Rifle Company White Phosphorous Barrage
Yeah why not.

I would like to see the M10 in Armor Company swapped with the M4A376(W) in Mechanized Company if for no other reason than doctrine flavor. It makes more sense for the dedicated upgunned version of the Sherman to be in the armored doctrine, and the mobile AT unit to be in mechanized. (I know this is technically a nerf for mechanized, but I think the M10 could stand to have a couple changes too).

I also do like the idea to put assault engineers in Urban Assault, but I think the rangers should move to infantry company (replacing the mortar HT most likely). This would add a new combo, with ranger lmgs. If it is too strong, a similar nerf like with riflemen can be applied to the rangers with lmgs.

I've always seen M10 as a 'squisher' meme. It is pretty pathetic as a mobile AT so, as it was mentioned earlier, it is much better to invest in a Sherman then in M10.

edit: one thing that may help M10 imo is target size. 22 is quite a bit for a 50 range td, considering that most mediums, even the premium ones, are in 20-21 range. The closest unit to it is Stug G which has target size of 17. So no idea why M10 should be 22.

Sad to see no more abitlies being tested out in the updated patch. Rifle Company still needs something more like a M3 Halftrack and changes like that should be done sooner rather than later. Larger changes need more time to be balanced and now another patch has gone with just 4 tweaks to the US commanders in total.

Also yeah M10 with a lowered target size could be a good way to improve it. Seems like it should be lower for a quick moving and fragile TD.

Sad to see no more abitlies being tested out in the updated patch. Rifle Company still needs something more like a M3 Halftrack and changes like that should be done sooner rather than later. Larger changes need more time to be balanced and now another patch has gone with just 4 tweaks to the US commanders in total.

Also yeah M10 with a lowered target size could be a good way to improve it. Seems like it should be lower for a quick moving and fragile TD.

Dude, don't expect anything new for AEF. The balance team gives no fu**s. For all they care, AEF is OP in 1v1 and as such can only get further nerfed. Somebody said to me in the lines of << this is just the first iteration of the patch >>. Yeah, the 2nd one is much better xD

Yeah it feels like posting here is just a waste of time.

I would like to see the M10 in Armor Company swapped with the M4A376(W) in Mechanized Company if for no other reason than doctrine flavor. It makes more sense for the dedicated upgunned version of the Sherman to be in the armored doctrine, and the mobile AT unit to be in mechanized. (I know this is technically a nerf for mechanized, but I think the M10 could stand to have a couple changes too).

I also do like the idea to put assault engineers in Urban Assault, but I think the rangers should move to infantry company (replacing the mortar HT most likely). This would add a new combo, with ranger lmgs. If it is too strong, a similar nerf like with riflemen can be applied to the rangers with lmgs.

I'd like to see the M10 buffed to where it is usable. It's a TD with 5 less range than a Panther and half the hit points. It is outranged by the Stug and even the Puma. Its penetration is higher than a Stug but it is shooting at much higher armored targets so it bounces much more. It was an open-top TD so it should have had better vision than any tank and possibly better than scout cars. It seems like it loses 1v1 to just about anything above a Luchs.

I'd like to see the M10 buffed to where it is usable. It's a TD with 5 less range than a Panther and half the hit points. It is outranged by the Stug and even the Puma. Its penetration is higher than a Stug but it is shooting at much higher armored targets so it bounces much more. It was an open-top TD so it should have had better vision than any tank and possibly better than scout cars. It seems like it loses 1v1 to just about anything above a Luchs.

You were Wrong.
StuGs and M10 have both 50 Range. Stugs have 200/185/170 penetration and M10 has 180/160/140 penetration.

Both Have 560HP.

I took a long break from this game and got back to playing it a few months ago. I was maining the armor company pretty hard because of the m10s. I think they had/have a big flank damage boost if you hit something which is where their utility comes from. Was this nerfed?