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Winter 2021 Balance Patch - Discussion

1 Mar 2021, 07:35 AM
#61
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



They changed the model on the wc51 because it can't be decrewed anymore. So they probably wanted to do the same for other light vehicles. I personally don't think this is something that needed consistency and just looks bad.


but there was a reason for the wc51 , it really looks bad even for the wc51 visually speaking.
1 Mar 2021, 08:34 AM
#62
avatar of Fargoth88

Posts: 30

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 07:35 AMOlfin


but there was a reason for the wc51 , it really looks bad even for the wc51 visually speaking.


I don't entirely get it either. The WC51 might as well keep the vehicle crew models since the priest and calliope can't be decrewed either.
1 Mar 2021, 14:14 PM
#63
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



I don't entirely get it either. The WC51 might as well keep the vehicle crew models since the priest and calliope can't be decrewed either.


Yeah agree.
1 Mar 2021, 15:04 PM
#64
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Since UKF sniper is meant to fire of vehicles maybe allow 2 mode:

Mode 1 fire only on infatry
Mode 2 free fire at what eve target is available
Pip
1 Mar 2021, 16:48 PM
#65
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 15:04 PMVipper
Since UKF sniper is meant to fire of vehicles maybe allow 2 mode:

Mode 1 fire only on infatry
Mode 2 free fire at what eve target is available


I mean, do you even want your UKF sniper to autofire on vehicles? You pretty much never want a sniper to autofire at all.
1 Mar 2021, 17:15 PM
#66
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 15:04 PMVipper
Since UKF sniper is meant to fire of vehicles maybe allow 2 mode:

Mode 1 fire only on infatry
Mode 2 free fire at what eve target is available

That would be perfect, on the other hand I rarely wsnt my sniper to fore at vehicles at all. If that is needed I can actively manage. I think the current version is fine, also it keeps some consistency across the UI
1 Mar 2021, 17:22 PM
#67
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 16:48 PMPip


I mean, do you even want your UKF sniper to autofire on vehicles? You pretty much never want a sniper to autofire at all.

UKF sniper did decent damage to vehicles and even caused criticals.

There is reason to fire on vehicles especially TDs but not chase them if they move.
1 Mar 2021, 17:45 PM
#68
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Ah, the T-34 Ram was soft removed from the game despite all the discussions. It reminds me of the M-42 when its was given a canister shot and then just killed him, as if to say: yes, we gave the M-42 a unique ability, but no one will use it now.
1 Mar 2021, 19:32 PM
#69
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1

Could we please change back the crew of the flak emplacement and the kübelwagen. The vehicle and ost mg crew models looked fine in imo. The winter volksgrenadier looks especially weird in the kübelwagen. The detection passive ability for the IR StG Obers should also be removed since it has the same position as the reinforce button. Maybe it could be an icon on the portrait.


It's more weird to see tank crew members in millitary car, which usually was operated by regular soldiers. Same goes for M3A1 and other light vehicles.
Tank crew model should be used only in medium and heavy vehicles, because they requires special training and seems logic there.

For Flak 38. It is OKW unit and should use OKW crew model (like HMG 34, RW 43 and others). iirc only pak 43 still uses ost models, but i would change them too on OKW alternative.

All above is my personal opinion.

Agree with obers remark, it should be adjusted.

P.S.S. Now M3A1 is my favorite unit, just becuase it looks more essential with soviet riflemen model. :wub:
Pip
1 Mar 2021, 20:14 PM
#70
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



It's more weird to see tank crew members in millitary car, which usually was operated by regular soldiers. Same goes for M3A1 and other light vehicles.
Tank crew model should be used only in medium and heavy vehicles, because they requires special training and seems logic there.

For Flak 38. It is OKW unit and should use OKW crew model (like HMG 34, RW 43 and others). iirc only pak 43 still uses ost models, but i would change them too on OKW alternative.

All above is my personal opinion.

Agree with obers remark, it should be adjusted.

P.S.S. Now M3A1 is my favorite unit, just becuase it looks more essential with soviet riflemen model. :wub:


I guess the issue is that OKW don't HAVE crew models, all their team weapons etcetera just use Volksgrenadier models, which is kind of a shame, really. I guess Lelic just got a little lazy when they were making OKW. (UKF has the same issue, as does USF (though they at least have a couple unique models for things such as MG crews)
1 Mar 2021, 21:48 PM
#71
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 20:14 PMPip

I guess the issue is that OKW don't HAVE crew models, all their team weapons etcetera just use Volksgrenadier models, which is kind of a shame, really. I guess Lelic just got a little lazy when they were making OKW. (UKF has the same issue, as does USF (though they at least have a couple unique models for things such as MG crews)

I really wish Lelic put more effort into the OKW models. I wish there was more than just...blue.
1 Mar 2021, 23:23 PM
#72
avatar of nikolai262
Donator 22

Posts: 83

"The capture rate of Infantry Sections is being lowered to reduce the ability of the British faction to snowball their map control through pure Section builds."

Yes because this is the problem with Tommys everyone has been struggling with....not the fact they are still by far the best mainline infantry bar none and become 5 man terminator squads so early. Only effective counter is sniper or falls/obers/elite infantry......

seriously OKW vs brits is still such a joke you have to build kubel or lux and even if you do the bren and AEC are nice counters not too mention brit sniper vs elite infantry. (I play both factions btw)

Personally I think tommys should either not have in field healing at all so you can at least wear down positions by forcing retreats or make them only have a single weapon slot so you can at least catch up late game?

1 Mar 2021, 23:50 PM
#73
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2021, 15:42 PMMMX
now the AoE changes should have barely any noticeable effect other than bringing the numbers of autofire and barrage in line with each other. but i'm quite puzzled what the "fire-time" changes are referring to. could anyone give more info on this?


Each weapon has a "wind down" time after firing. Thanks to the outdated mod tools, I can tell you that the old values were 1.125s for barrages, and 2s for autofire. For AoE, autofire did more damage than barrages. Though the patch notes don't say for sure, I assume the barrage value is being used for both now. The fire rate increase isn't worth the AoE loss, so autofire has been nerfed.
Pip
1 Mar 2021, 23:59 PM
#74
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2021, 21:48 PMSpoof

I really wish Lelic put more effort into the OKW models. I wish there was more than just...blue.


None of the WFA have quite so much care put into their models/unit chatter/etc as the EFA do, sadly. Volksgrenadiers at least have a real winter unit variation, whereas USF and UKF mainlines just manifest gloves and scarves.
2 Mar 2021, 00:30 AM
#75
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Ah, the T-34 Ram was soft removed from the game despite all the discussions. It reminds me of the M-42 when its was given a canister shot and then just killed him, as if to say: yes, we gave the M-42 a unique ability, but no one will use it now.

i disagree. the ram will still allow for other better AT units to make use of the time without completely nuking the vehicle. i DO however think the t34 should have got something in return to make it more worth the cost- something like the cromwell got to make it worth flanking with or getting in the enemies face since many other tanks are roughly as fast as the t34 is already its often difficult to make use of the flank despite the great risk it imposes on the tank.

i sort of with that rear armour damage was modified so that ontop of the increased chance to pen there was increased damage (across the board, not just from t34s) to further promote, or rather reward flanks.
Pip
2 Mar 2021, 00:40 AM
#76
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


i disagree. the ram will still allow for other better AT units to make use of the time without completely nuking the vehicle. i DO however think the t34 should have got something in return to make it more worth the cost- something like the cromwell got to make it worth flanking with or getting in the enemies face since many other tanks are roughly as fast as the t34 is already its often difficult to make use of the flank despite the great risk it imposes on the tank.

i sort of with that rear armour damage was modified so that ontop of the increased chance to pen there was increased damage (across the board, not just from t34s) to further promote, or rather reward flanks.


Ideally Ram will just be removed entirely and replaced with a different ability, honestly. I'm hoping the Balance Team have made this change as a stop-gap while they mull over ideas for a replacement ability for both the T-34 and the 85, but we'll have to see.
2 Mar 2021, 02:47 AM
#77
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

For Flak 38. It is OKW unit and should use OKW crew model (like HMG 34, RW 43 and others). iirc only pak 43 still uses ost models, but i would change them too on OKW alternative.


The Pak 43 and LeFH crews actually have the appropriate uniform, having red shoulder straps that designate them as Artillery. Funnily enough this seems to be coincidentally correct as MG Crewmen and Osttruppen also wear red straps. Volksgrenadiers got it right though, their white straps designate them as Infantry. If I remember correctly, Sturmpioneers have black designate them as Pioneers.
2 Mar 2021, 02:49 AM
#78
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Mar 2021, 00:40 AMPip


Ideally Ram will just be removed entirely and replaced with a different ability, honestly. I'm hoping the Balance Team have made this change as a stop-gap while they mull over ideas for a replacement ability for both the T-34 and the 85, but we'll have to see.

eh. it would have to be a hell of an ability, because currently the soviets only stock way to fight armour is head on. ram at least buys time for other assists, even in its current form. itll let you close with penals (hopefully) or get a salvo or 2 off from your zis or SU

perhaps the t34 ram should actually act sort of as a conventional snare- with thresholds based on the health of the target:
100% health means damage only- no stun
75% health means stun like now
50% means engine damage
25% means heavy engine damage

something like that. then theres more counterplay and it means actually suiciding ther t34 becomes more worth it the more beat up the enemy tank is. it then scales with heavy armour (more health means deeper thresholds) while still being unique and acting as the fore multiplier it was meant to be.
2 Mar 2021, 06:00 AM
#79
avatar of 1st. Fallschirmjäger

Posts: 67



perhaps the t34 ram should actually act sort of as a conventional snare- with thresholds based on the health of the target:
100% health means damage only- no stun
75% health means stun like now
50% means engine damage
25% means heavy engine damage


Nice idea, we just don't have that kind of technology yet :).Joking aside that is really a nice idea would just remove the heavy engine one, which for a heavy tank migth as well be dead for the speed it moves, and also use the same formula for the t34 itself, say if it rams and still mantains above 75% hp the t34 gets only a stun while a low health one just gets killed for the rodina.
2 Mar 2021, 06:20 AM
#80
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2


eh. it would have to be a hell of an ability, because currently the soviets only stock way to fight armour is head on. ram at least buys time for other assists, even in its current form. itll let you close with penals (hopefully) or get a salvo or 2 off from your zis or SU

perhaps the t34 ram should actually act sort of as a conventional snare- with thresholds based on the health of the target:
100% health means damage only- no stun
75% health means stun like now
50% means engine damage
25% means heavy engine damage

something like that. then theres more counterplay and it means actually suiciding ther t34 becomes more worth it the more beat up the enemy tank is. it then scales with heavy armour (more health means deeper thresholds) while still being unique and acting as the fore multiplier it was meant to be.


The ability should work simply without any conditions. Either the ability works, or throw it away. There is no need to invent complications where they are unnecessary.
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