Smartie's commander reworks: USF

How is re-introducing completely redundant ability making anything better?

Ah right, sorry, I forgot for a bit that "reworks" in context of anything allied equals hard nerfs.

They already have started doing that, the wc51 has nerfs in the patch. Which abilities are you going to remove then

I’m not the one you were responding to but personally I like the idea of dropping the Halftrack and dozer upgrade. The WC51 and 76mm Sherman are the more commonly used doctrinal units and both are quite useful units. Then I think it could be interesting to give the removed units to other lacking doctrine. I saw the suggestion to give the Halftrack to the rifle company and to move the dozer upgrade to armor company. It would help those 2 lacking commanders while decluttering Mechanzied.
Granted the nerfs to the WC51 in the balance patch change things since the WC51 is a lot weaker now but idk how exactly you would want to address that.

I have many times.

It involves getting "withdraw and refit" back (in redesigned form) and designed the commander around heavy LV play.

You keep deflecting the question. How would you redesign it? You cannot just sprinkle the word redesign to have to fix everything.

I’m not the one you were responding to but personally I like the idea of dropping the Halftrack and dozer upgrade. The WC51 and 76mm Sherman are the more commonly used doctrinal units and both are quite useful units. Then I think it could be interesting to give the removed units to other lacking doctrine. I saw the suggestion to give the Halftrack to the rifle company and to move the dozer upgrade to armor company. It would help those 2 lacking commanders while decluttering Mechanzied.
Granted the nerfs to the WC51 in the balance patch change things since the WC51 is a lot weaker now but idk how exactly you would want to address that.

I like moving the Half-track to rifle company, but the dozer to armor company might be odd. It does already have the other dozer Sherman

Dozer upgrade is badly designed upgrade and should simply be removed.

The vehicle become superior to 105mm Dozer, comes earlier and allow player to upgrade vehicles for his teammates. The upgrade should simply be scraped.

allow player to upgrade vehicles for his teammates.

Amazing synergy!
Will got to try that asap, sounds very cool, finally USF has some synergy with anyting in team games besides redundant weapon drop for T1 soviets!

I like moving the Half-track to rifle company, but the dozer to armor company might be odd. It does already have the other dozer Sherman

Yeah it isn't the best idea but it kind of makes sense in terms giving Armor Company a way to improve their armor more. Honestly could just drop that upgrade from Mechanized, leave it only in Urban Combat, and then look to buff Armor Company in some other way.

I wouldn't really separate rangers from Pershing. Fits nicely in the commander, especially since they synergize well with the smoke. Either zook rangers for medium hunting or assaults on MGs.

About the E8. It will never shine. Nothing but a bit more glorified OKW P4 locked in a doctrine. Sure it has more penetration but so does it face higher armour values. A good tank, but not worth picking a doctrine that gives 0 late game value outside of an occasional expensive (120 muni) glorified smoke. Good for VP denial though, that smoke. Still expensive, but good if you really need to stall those last points. Saved me a couple of times leading to wins with less than 20 points lead. Flamethrowers are not really used on echelons in teamgames, especially since they decrease the range of the whole squad on right clicks (eg: zook + flame). The sprint on rifles is good. The biggest selling point is the sandbags/mines on rifles.

Mech got nerfed via WC51 nerf. Don't know if further nerfs are needed. But I think it will still be picked in 1v1s most of the time. Recon commander is strange. On one hand you get pak howi + paras that have elite zooks (Question: Why don't airborne paras have elite zooks?) for quite a price tag, but you also get a useless LV that really has no use outside of 1v1. Great commander overall for 1v1 that loses in teamgames most of the time (the 100 muni is not really worth it for pak/paras in teamgames).

Rest of the commanders are kinda ok. But truth be told, E8, Heavy cav and recon are the commanders I play 90% of my 3v3s. Seldom get the Pershing though, the offmap smoke + rangers is brilliant.

I wouldn't really separate rangers from Pershing. Fits nicely in the commander, especially since they synergize well with the smoke. Either zook rangers for medium hunting or assaults on MGs.

About the E8. It will never shine. Nothing but a bit more glorified OKW P4 locked in a doctrine. Sure it has more penetration but so does it face higher armour values. A good tank, but not worth picking a doctrine that gives 0 late game value outside of an occasional expensive (120 muni) glorified smoke. Good for VP denial though, that smoke. Still expensive, but good if you really need to stall those last points. Saved me a couple of times leading to wins with less than 20 points lead. Flamethrowers are not really used on echelons in teamgames, especially since they decrease the range of the whole squad on right clicks (eg: zook + flame). The sprint on rifles is good. The biggest selling point is the sandbags/mines on rifles.

Mech got nerfed via WC51 nerf. Don't know if further nerfs are needed. But I think it will still be picked in 1v1s most of the time. Recon commander is strange. On one hand you get pak howi + paras that have elite zooks (Question: Why don't airborne paras have elite zooks?) for quite a price tag, but you also get a useless LV that really has no use outside of 1v1. Great commander overall for 1v1 that loses in teamgames most of the time (the 100 muni is not really worth it for pak/paras in teamgames).

Rest of the commanders are kinda ok. But truth be told, E8, Heavy cav and recon are the commanders I play 90% of my 3v3s. Seldom get the Pershing though, the offmap smoke + rangers is brilliant.

the sad point about cav is M26 too bad and urban assault give you better smoke for same cost :/

Pershing and rangers fit pretty well together, noting that heavy cavs job is to provide usf sturdier frontline potential. Cav rifles asthetically eould fit however. I personally would like to see assault engineers implemented to another commander. As for other changes id like for the m3 qnd m5 halftracks 50 cal to be stronger so it could provide rifle squads some light fire support.

Ass engies would fit in urban assault Better than rangers frankly. With demos and flamer it would certainly suit.

(Question: Why don't airborne paras have elite zooks?)

I'm pretty sure they do.

I'm pretty sure they do.

No, they don't

No, they don't

They do have it.

HI guys,
snip

USF snipers best idea in the universe. Can we get the CoH1 style camo for it as it is a doctrinal unit.

I wouldn't really separate rangers from Pershing. Fits nicely in the commander, especially since they synergize well with the smoke. Either zook rangers for medium hunting or assaults on MGs.

About the E8. It will never shine. Nothing but a bit more glorified OKW P4 locked in a doctrine. Sure it has more penetration but so does it face higher armour values.

Funny how you speak of the higher armor value of axis tank and not their lower penetration values.

Easy 8 has clear advantage over the PzIV J because of high penetration and high armor.
A PzIV has 51% to penetrate the Easy8 and Easy8 has 66%

A good tank, but not worth picking a doctrine that gives 0 late game value outside of an occasional expensive (120 muni) glorified smoke. Good for VP denial though, that smoke. Still expensive, but good if you really need to stall those last points. Saved me a couple of times leading to wins with less than 20 points lead.

WP smoke is not a glorified smoke since it damages and slow units unlike smoke and it not even expensive. It price is 130 mu 10 more munition than "incendiary bombing run" while being far superior.

Flamethrowers are not really used on echelons in teamgames, especially since they decrease the range of the whole squad on right clicks (eg: zook + flame). The sprint on rifles is good. The biggest selling point is the sandbags/mines on rifles.

Flamethrowers do not decrease the range of the whole squad the range remain the same the unit simply move close so that all weapon can fire.

Suggestion do not combine flamer with bazookas and if you do, move your unit into range instead of attacking armor.

Mech got nerfed via WC51 nerf. Don't know if further nerfs are needed. But I think it will still be picked in 1v1s most of the time. Recon commander is strange. On one hand you get pak howi + paras that have elite zooks (Question: Why don't airborne paras have elite zooks?) for quite a price tag, but you also get a useless LV that really has no use outside of 1v1. Great commander overall for 1v1 that loses in teamgames most of the time (the 100 muni is not really worth it for pak/paras in teamgames).

Rest of the commanders are kinda ok. But truth be told, E8, Heavy cav and recon are the commanders I play 90% of my 3v3s. Seldom get the Pershing though, the offmap smoke + rangers is brilliant.

All paras get "elite" bazookas" and so do rangers.

Funny how you speak of the higher armor value of axis tank and not their lower penetration values.

Easy 8 has clear advantage over the PzIV J because of high penetration and high armor.
A PzIV has 51% to penetrate the Easy8 and Easy8 has 66%


WP smoke is not a glorified smoke since it damages and slow units unlike smoke and it not even expensive. It price is 130 mu 10 more munition than "incendiary bombing run" while being far superior.


Flamethrowers do not decrease the range of the whole squad the range remain the same the unit simply move close so that all weapon can fire.

Suggestion do not combine flamer with bazookas and if you do, move your unit into range instead of attacking armor.


All paras get "elite" bazookas" and so do rangers.

No sh** sherlock that axis have lower penetration values. They are going against lower armour. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Furthermore, the penetration values are not proportionally lower compared to higher armour values, the whole point of axis factions.
WP is a glorified smoke. The shells come is slow succession and they are easy to dodge. I didn't say it's useless, so learn to read. Play with the WP and you'll see that it's highly situational on most maps. Nothing but a glorified smoke for that price. If the price were 100 MP, then it would have been much more useful.
Flamethrowers do not decrease the range, no sh** sherlock. Do people really need to spell it out for you to understand? Learn to read between the lines. "Simply move in" sure, let me move in to a P4. And I do agree that flamethrowers and zooks should not be combined. It's suicide, which is my point exactly. Can't put it on echelons if they have flame, can't put it on rifles since it's suicide. Major only. Thank you for proving my point, zooks become useless unless the flame squad dies later on in game.

Seralia does not show the bazooka tab for the Paratrooper squad but it does for Paratrooper support squad (recon paras). Furthermore, there is no icon on the paratrooper squad that they have better training with zooks (like commando brens, ranger zooks, etc) in game.
Won't discuss anything further sinc

No sh** sherlock that axis have lower penetration values. They are going against lower armour. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Furthermore, the penetration values are not proportionally lower compared to higher armour values, the whole point of axis factions.

Yes the are not proportional that is why Easy 8 has a clear penetration advantage over PzIV J contrary to what you post implied.

WP is a glorified smoke. The shells come is slow succession and they are easy to dodge. I didn't say it's useless, so learn to read. Play with the WP and you'll see that it's highly situational on most maps. Nothing but a glorified smoke for that price. If the price were 100 MP, then it would have been much more useful.

White phosphorous is not simply (or glorified) smoke, one is a sight blocker the other does damage and slow down.

At 100 mu it would cheaper and far superior from "incendiary bombing run", yes it would more useful simply because it would be OP. The ability is simply fine and the price is not expensive.

Flamethrowers do not decrease the range, no sh** sherlock. Do people really need to spell it out for you to understand? Learn to read between the lines.

If it does not decrease range then sdo not write that it does decrease range.

Simply learn to write what you want to say instead of posting things that factually wrong.

Flamer have no effect in the range of other weapons of the squad regardless of what attack command one give contrary to what you have posted.

"Simply move in" sure, let me move in to a P4. And I do agree that flamethrowers and zooks should not be combined. It's suicide, which is my point exactly. Can't put it on echelons if they have flame, can't put it on rifles since it's suicide. Major only. Thank you for proving my point, zooks become useless unless the flame squad dies later on in game.

The argument that flamer are useless because they do not mix bazookas is simply silly, for the simple the do not come as a package.

If one wants an anti garrison infatry then one gives flamers to R.E. if one wants a AT infatry one give bazookas to R.E.

Seralia does not show the bazooka tab for the Paratrooper squad but it does for Paratrooper support squad (recon paras). Furthermore, there is no icon on the paratrooper squad that they have better training with zooks (like commando brens, ranger zooks, etc) in game.
Won't discuss anything further sinc

That is is incorrect Paras, Paras Support Squad and Range all have a (passive)Bazooka expert icon on the bottom right corner.

No can you pls leave Sherlock alone?

Ass engies would fit in urban assault Better than rangers frankly. With demos and flamer it would certainly suit.

I agree this idea.

Furthermore, there is no icon on the paratrooper squad that they have better training with zooks (like commando brens, ranger zooks, etc) in game.

There is.