The Excessive Amount Of Micro Required For Brummbar

attack move has better shell velocity than attack ground so it makes up for sometimes targeting the wrong model.

There is no such thing as a difference in shell velocity between attack ground and auto attack. They use the same weapon.

There is no such thing as a difference in shell velocity between attack ground and auto attack. They use the same weapon.

Yes there is.

Test it in game.

There is no such thing as a difference in shell velocity between attack ground and auto attack. They use the same weapon.

Yes there is.

Test it in game.

I assume it's because if you hold fire and attack ground, you manually target the center of the squad (= further away = higher arc = lower velocity) instead of the nearest model?

Yes there is.

Test it in game.

No, there isn't.

Total propaganda.

Attack move works very well and saves an insane amount of micro. You have all been hoodwinked by a couple tryhards who spend all their micro on the brummbar and then wonder why they're getting rekt.


Most of the time the squads are pretty clumped up and attack move has better shell velocity than attack ground so it makes up for sometimes targeting the wrong model.

COH 2 lesson 101 specially designed for certain "top level" players.

The stat units in COH2 are saved in file. The file includes the weapon a unit uses. The unit brumbar uses the weapons:

"mg42_turret_mounted_brummbar_mp" which describes the behavior of mg weapon

"brummbar_150mm_bunker_buster_mp" which describes the behavior of the barrage

"brummbar_150mm_mp" which describes the behavior of the main gun

Auto-attack, attack ground, attack move all use the last the same stats.

Also:
1) Panther is not more accurate than SU-85, contrary to what certain "top level" player claim
2) IS did not dominated the tournament after their moving accuracy was increased, contrary to what certain "top level" player claim

(important safety note: mention G5 cell phone aerials spread the covid19 virus)

I assume it's because if you hold fire and attack ground, you manually target the center of the squad (= further away = higher arc = lower velocity) instead of the nearest model?

velocity is not depend on arc, flight time is.

I assume it's because if you hold fire and attack ground, you manually target the center of the squad (= further away = higher arc = lower velocity) instead of the nearest model?

Okay mystery solved

Sometimes in the live game the Brumm brumm will act stupid if there’s some kind of sight blocker in front of it and launch a shell high up in the air that takes a long long time to get there, whereas attack moving just takes it 5m further but the shell arrives there normally.

Very cool.

Okay mystery solved

Sometimes in the live game the Brumm brumm will act stupid if there’s some kind of sight blocker in front of it and launch a shell high up in the air that takes a long long time to get there, whereas attack moving just takes it 5m further but the shell arrives there normally.

Very cool.

That is incorrect.

Shots fired using auto attack, attack move or even manual aim will behave a the same, long as the fire from the same point A to B, since the all will use the weapon.

velocity is not depend on arc, flight time is.

things are actually a lot more complex in coh2. the angle and velocity of artillery-like projectiles are not rigidly set but have a bit of wiggle room. obviously, there are multiple velocity-angle combinations that result in the same travel distance but different time of arrival for the projectile. exactly how the game chooses an individual firing solution is still a mystery to me (i've tried to figure this out some time ago to no avail), but i'm sure even small changes (distance, elevation) can have quite drastic effects

Imagine thinking microing and not microing your Brummbar does not have an impact in its performance.


Alright. Does this thread go somewhere useful from here or is it done?

That is incorrect.

This is actually trolling at this point lol

cope

things are actually a lot more complex in coh2. the angle and velocity of artillery-like projectiles are not rigidly set but have a bit of wiggle room. obviously, there are multiple velocity-angle combinations that result in the same travel distance but different time of arrival for the projectile. exactly how the game chooses an individual firing solution is still a mystery to me (i've tried to figure this out some time ago to no avail), but i'm sure even small changes (distance, elevation) can have quite drastic effects

Brummbar projectile has a speed 29 (there is "speed distance multiplier" and "acceleration"),but I do not see how that can change with angle.

The angle can have an effect on the behavior and flight time but I do see how it would have an effect on muzzle velocity or actual velocity of the projectile during flight.

Weapos that could have a different speed is leig/packH/stug E/command panzer since it seems there is a "high angle" projectile although I did not check if it even being used.

This is actually trolling at this point lol

cope

Actually I am correcting the "false news" you a "top player" is spreading.

I am actually allot more concern with people being misinformed by reading your posts than I am being right or wrong.

Brummbar projectile has a speed 29 (there is "speed distance multiplier" and "acceleration"),but I do not see how that can change with angle.

The angle can have an effect on the behavior and flight time but I do see how it would have an effect on muzzle velocity or actual velocity of the projectile during flight.

Weapos that could have a different speed is leig/packH/stug E/command panzer since it seems there is a "high angle" projectile although I did not check if it even being used.

as i said, i'm not sure how exactly it is calculated in-game and, unfortunately, the editor is pretty cryptic on that as well.

anyway, from what i understand the projectile speed you mentioned is only the minimum muzzle velocity. if with the chosen firing angle there's no firing solution, i.e. the
shell would land short or overshoot, the initial projectile speed gets increased (or decreased) by a set increment and the firing solution recalculated until it matches.

now the part i don't know is how the firing angle is chosen. there is a min/max in the editor and some algorithm that gets the lowest possible angle needed to avoid shot blockers, but the actual angle seems to be random and to vary from shot to shot

what this means is that depending on the angle, the velocity (and as a result the time of flight) of the projectile is adjusted and can therefore vary between shots.

but to get back to the original discussion: the brummbär is potent enough w/o manual targeting but can greatly benefit from that extra bit of micro in some situations. i see no issue with this at all; a lot of other units do as well and for me this is a very rewarding gameplay aspect. it would be a problem if the brum were completely useless using its auto attack only, but you'd have to be pretty delusional to claim that in the first place.

as i said, i'm not sure how exactly it is calculated in-game and, unfortunately, the editor is pretty cryptic on that as well.

anyway, from what i understand the projectile speed you mentioned is only the minimum muzzle velocity. if with the chosen firing angle there's no firing solution, i.e. the
shell would land short or overshoot, the initial projectile speed gets increased (or decreased) by a set increment and the firing solution recalculated until it matches.

now the part i don't know is how the firing angle is chosen. there is a min/max in the editor and some algorithm that gets the lowest possible angle needed to avoid shot blockers, but the actual angle seems to be random and to vary from shot to shot

what this means is that depending on the angle, the velocity (and as a result the time of flight) of the projectile is adjusted and can therefore vary between shots.

Are you talking about the projection of of velocity on X axis or the real velocity?
Because from what I have seen projectile velocity is dependent on projectile attributes and not guns attributes and a such I do not see how angel of fire would effect it.

Unless of coarse it is weapon that has a separate projectile for high angles. Anyway if you want to continue this I suggest you PM me.

but to get back to the original discussion: the brummbär is potent enough w/o manual targeting but can greatly benefit from that extra bit of micro in some situations. i see no issue with this at all; a lot of other units do as well and for me this is a very rewarding gameplay aspect. it would be a problem if the brum were completely useless using its auto attack only, but you'd have to be pretty delusional to claim that in the first place.

The autor-fire performance of the Brummbar depends on that target size and of its speed.

For instance against a ourah conscripts squad a first shot has a good chance of not killing a single entity.

Lets take (a rare) hypothetical scenario with bad parameters for he Brummbar to explain:
a Brummbar moves in range perpendicular to 7 men conscript squad and thus select as target the entity on the edge, the conscripts see the brummbar approach and uses "ourah" that shot would probably not do allot of damage.

Is the auto-fire completely useless? definitely not
Is there a large gap between manual and auto aim? under certain conditions, (not static basically) I would say yes.

I'm not sure that hitting G and clicking on the ground qualifies as an excessive amount of micro but ok.

[...]
Is the auto-fire completely useless? definitely not
Is there a large gap between manual and auto aim? under certain conditions, (not static basically) I would say yes.

well that's been the general consensus throughout this thread as far as i can tell. my point is that this is a rather elegant design quirk than something that needs fixing or rebalancing of any sort.

well that's been the general consensus throughout this thread as far as i can tell. my point is that this is a rather elegant design quirk than something that needs fixing or rebalancing of any sort.

Adding micro to reduce a unit performance is not really "elegant" in my book especially in late game where things happen faster. If it was I would have voted for the ISU-152 to get manual reload.

"The Brummbar is in a very bad place"
yeah, like removing 50% hp of vet 3 squads with each shot aint strong at all.. or the strong armor, health.. please more


and micro needed for axis squads.. impossibru. better add non doctrinal skill smoke to it aswell