[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

A topic that should be discussed imo:
- Should OKW get the ability to build caches?

Its a huge disadvantage for the faction, especially if you play double OKW (ok, nobodoy does atm.
When OKW was really strong and had op units this design decision made sense. But I dont see no reason to deny it furthermore.

How do Sturmpioneer StG44 and Stormtrooper MP40 compare? Since they're technically the same unit IRL, if the Stormtrooper MP40 is weaker than the StG44 the Sturmpioneers could get 4x Stormtrooper MP40s.

As said above, the Stormtrooper MP 40 is vastly superior. It ties with the Thompson SMG for close DPS, but has inferior mid-range DPS. Assault Grenadier MP 40 has similar DPS at exactly range 10, but inferior in every other range. I assume the Assault Grenadier version would be used, as the Stormtrooper version would be an overall upgrade. And just for curiosity, the IR StG 44 to the Stormtrooper MP 40 is like the Sturmpiuoneer StG 44 to the Assault Grenadier MP 40. Not really relevent, but I found it interesting.

What do you think of dropping the StGs from Sturmpioneers and giving the StG-focused upgrades to Volks or other infantry?

If Spios STGs were to replaced with mp40s here's how I would do it:

Squad cost reduced to 280

squad size increased to 5

STG44 replaced with assault grenadier mp40s

Panzerschreck upgrade replaced with flamethrower

Firestorm Spio flamer upgrade replaced with 251 halftrack (require 1 truck deployed)

Volks flame grenade replaced with Model 24 HE grenade

If Spios STGs were to replaced with mp40s here's how I would do it:

Squad cost reduced to 280

squad size increased to 5

STG44 replaced with assault grenadier mp40s

Panzerschreck upgrade replaced with flamethrower

Firestorm Spio flamer upgrade with Spio Veteran Squad leader upgrade:

(Squad size increased from 5 to 6, gains Veterancy 10% faster, and takes 10% less damage)

Volks flame grenade replaced with Model 24 HE grenade

last thing we should get is 6 man sturmpios.

last thing we should get is 6 man sturmpios.

You are right, I need to think of something else to give to Firestorm, but what are your thoughts on the other suggested changes?

I dont like the change on the STUKA vet 1 ability:

It's too strong vs brit emplacement as tested by tightrope : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAjaFMmEd0
(At min 40:00)

It comes wayyyyy too early vet 1 is basically 5-10 min of stuka gameplay IF very unlucky.


Since the only (non doc) mortar brit have is emplacement, and in some game you do need it for smoke/ counter heavy mg play etc etc..

The 17 pounder is sometime the only good option vs the king tiger or a jag/elephant.

This ability Hardcounter emplacement and should not be so easily accessible.

I agree vet 4 was too late for it to be any use. But I suggest to put it at VET 3. And you could keep the previous dmg/aoe it had. By the time The OKW player will have a KT/JGT if he went stuka he should have reach the proper vet or be very close to it.

I could agree with putting it on vet 2 if you nerf by a lot the dmg it does on emplacement.


Im not a 3v3 /4v4 player but Im sure this change will have a huge impact on any brit player if this change come live.

By the way most of my game are 2v2 OKW. And I don't understand why OKW would need it soo early since anyway With lieg, Volk flame nade they are doing just fine.



Napalm Rocket scatter from 16 to 12
- Napalm scatter max from 15 to 10
- Napalm Rocket FOW scatter from 3/2 to 1.25
- Napalm rocket DOTs spawns from 6 to 2
- Napalm Rocket munition cost from 90 to 40
- Napalm Rocket requirement from vet 4 to vet 1

I dont like the change on the STUKA vet 1 ability:

It's too strong vs brit emplacement as tested by tightrope : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAjaFMmEd0
(At min 40:00)

What isnt strong vs brit emplacements really? Double spread IGS will eat emplacements, you wont be able to counter it with mp, double mortar will counter them, single mortar HT will counter them.

You just need to keep bolster for this ability, if you dont have it, emplacements are equally fucked by other indirect fire units.

Even honestly it isn't that much harder, because at least bolster will save you from flames and then you would be able to repair emplacements, with other inderect fire units, you wont be even able to, because your sappers will be wiped.

There can always be a special parameter to tone down the damage against the emplacements, as there was in the past to increase it.

If Spios STGs were to replaced with mp40s here's how I would do it:

Squad cost reduced to 280

squad size increased to 5

STG44 replaced with assault grenadier mp40s

Panzerschreck upgrade replaced with flamethrower

Firestorm Spio flamer upgrade replaced with 251 halftrack (require 1 truck deployed)

Volks flame grenade replaced with Model 24 HE grenade

I think the panzershreck could stay because it's kind of dumb for late-war Germany to not have any. Panzershreck should be exclusive with flamethrower but minesweeper is inclusive with both. This way in the late-game Sturmpioneers shift from flanking infantry/early game infantry bullies to a versatile support squad. I don't think the squad size needs an increase, maybe if there's a way to make a damage model in between the assgren MP40 and the stormtrooper MP 40 (if necessary, that just increases DPS a little at ranges above 10) that could be done. The vet 1 concussion grenade should be swapped with a smoke grenade unlocked through tech or vet 1.

I dont like the change on the STUKA vet 1 ability:
...

The only problem with sutka is that because of weird penetration values it was given extra damage vs emplacements. Think thing will allot better once these modifier are removed.

I wonder what are the penetration values on the stuka rockets in Feuersturm doctrine's rocket barrage.

I wonder what are the penetration values on the stuka rockets in Feuersturm doctrine's rocket barrage.

If I am not mistaken the same as Stuka's at 0.

I dont like the change on the STUKA vet 1 ability:

It's too strong vs brit emplacement as tested by tightrope

I couldn't agree totally because the ability alone won't be enough to destroy emplacments if the good British players used Brace ability.
make it at vet3 is too late because OKW need something against blobs and clustred team weapons as fastest as it can, maybe a little nerf for it against emplacments will be ok.

Changes for OKW in the most recent update of the mod:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/288466#Comment_288466

Show Spoiler

Changes for OKW in the most recent update of the mod:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/288466#Comment_288466

OKW
Battlegroup Headquarters

Experimental

Given the cost efficiency of the new OKW medics, we want to try one an iteration that makes medics less difficult to backtech to and give OKW more options without needing to pay a large amount of resources for basic indirect-fire.

150 manpower and 10 fuel: Offers Le.IG upon completetion which now comes from off-map
Medic Upgrade Cost: 50 manpower and 10 fuel
Battle Group Upgrade: 100manpower and 20 fuel: unlocks 251 Flak Half-track, the UhU Searchlight
Half-Track, Infantry Weapon Upgrades, and ability to reinforce: 15 second research time

Ok this is the best change in the entire patch so far. Gives OKW the option to go for an earlier MG, and more affordable backtech for LEIG and Medics. Fantastic job mirage et al.

Stuka change was necessary for sure. Will require further testing.

A topic that should be discussed imo:
- Should OKW get the ability to build caches?

Its a huge disadvantage for the faction, especially if you play double OKW (ok, nobodoy does atm.
When OKW was really strong and had op units this design decision made sense. But I dont see no reason to deny it furthermore.

Right, Okw used to transfer ammo to fuel, which mean if they able to capture ammo, they can act like they capture a fuel.
Okw collect fuel through wrecked vehicles used to give Okw alot of fuel (30% iirc), which mean kill a Heavy will give you a Light tank

Though Im ok with Okw not able to get fuel, but to be fair, the game should make cache only give resource boost to the builder player.
And the big problem is in 4v4, Allies can defend 1/3 the map really well with a Bofor & double Mortar pit.

In 4v4, Axis has better chance to win if there is no Brit

Ah well, Command Panther will have to stick with 0.035 far accuracy though I suppose the Coordinated fire and 50 sight range was prob behind that decision.

"Fixed an issue where the OKW Panzer IV would get additional sight bonuses at veterancy 5"

Out of curiosity, what did this bug do exactly? The "+7 additional sight range when stationary after 5 seconds delay" was not meant to be there or was it getting even extra sight range on top of it?}

Battle Group Upgrade: 100manpower and 20 fuel: unlocks 251 Flak Half-track, the UhU Searchlight
Half-Track, Infantry Weapon Upgrades, and ability to reinforce: 15 second research time

Wait, is this locking StG44s, MP40s and SP upgrades (including sweeper package) out until bought? Ober LMGs? Fg42s?

Experimental change comments I'll leave to the actual testers but earlier fausts will definitely help vs the clown car situation. The rest seem very reasonable changes, going in the right direction. Smoke ISG change was something I didn't know was needed but helps with countering MGs from its prior of long setup times.

Ah well, Command Panther will have to stick with 0.035 far accuracy though I suppose the Coordinated fire and 50 sight range was prob behind that decision.

We're not sure yet, actually.

"Fixed an issue where the OKW Panzer IV would get additional sight bonuses at veterancy 5"

Out of curiosity, what did this bug do exactly? The "+7 additional sight range when stationary after 5 seconds delay" was not meant to be there or was it getting even extra sight range on top of it?}

P4 H gets +16 sight at vet 5, the bug gave it another +7 sight on top if stationary.

Battle Group Upgrade: 100manpower and 20 fuel: unlocks 251 Flak Half-track, the UhU Searchlight
Half-Track, Infantry Weapon Upgrades, and ability to reinforce: 15 second research time

Wait, is this locking StG44s and SP upgrades (including sweeper package) out until bought?

The tech rework is supposed to make backteching to Medics more viable for Mechanized, so it doesn't shake up Battlegroup start itself that much. That's why most of the stuff is locked behind the BG upgrade.

With Infantry Weapon Upgrades, JLI G43, Volk STG44 and Pfusi G43 are meant.

Experimental change comments I'll leave to the actual testers but earlier fausts will definitely help vs the clown car situation. The rest seem very reasonable changes, going in the right direction. Smoke ISG change was something I didn't know was needed but helps with countering MGs.

OKW already got some help in this regard. WC51 can be reliably forced away with small arms now, AEC is delayed significantly with the buildtime increase and Sections losing their capping bonus so can't safeguard the UC early on, M3 effectively lost 160 effective HP against small arms. Sturms also had their Schreck made non-exclusive with Sweeper.

That's why it was opted not to put the Faust in the initial Battlegroup structure.

We're not sure yet, actually.

P4 H gets +16 sight at vet 5, the bug gave it another +7 sight on top if stationary.

Ah okay, thanks for explaining. I always thought that +7 when stationary bit in the veterancy guide looked odd for years, it was nice while it worked I suppose but can't really complain if it was removed due to being a bug. +16 is very nice as is.

The tech rework is supposed to make backteching to Medics more viable for Mechanized, so it doesn't shake up Battlegroup start itself that much. That's why most of the stuff is locked behind the BG upgrade.

With Infantry Weapon Upgrades, JLI G43, Volk STG44 and Pfusi G43 are meant.

An interesting change though OKW without volks StG44 will be rather rare I predict (due to being overpowered quite easily without them and thus heavily favour BGruup openers), unless they seek to bypass with the MP40s(?) Or some kind of Falls/Ober heavy build . This change might shift ppl even further away from Mech as a viable tech. Does Mech HQ gets the Infantry Weapon Upgrades upgrade by default?

OKW already got some help in this regard. WC51 can be reliably forced away with small arms now, AEC is delayed significantly with the buildtime increase and Sections losing their capping bonus so can't safeguard the UC early on, M3 effectively lost 160 effective HP against small arms. Sturms also had their Schreck made non-exclusive with Sweeper.

That's why it was opted not to put the Faust in the initial Battlegroup structure.

Oh I meant that the BGruppe being cheaper and now put down earlier would make the first deployed HQ truck earlier now? Thus fausts would be available on volks earlier as a result unless I missed something? Is this intentional?

I agree with the rest, clown car situation was already significantly improved from the earlier v1 changes.