[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Should the ISU-152 get a penetration buff in exchange for its anti-infantry ammo range reduction or is the armor-piercing deflection damage significant enough to not warrant increased firepower against Axis armor? Not an easy test for sure.


It was called the "Beast Killer" (Зверобой: zveroboy) after all.

120 deflection damage is not enough? Then use the AP shot with 1000 penetration

Contrary to some claim there is nothing wrong with ISU-152 AT capabilities.

They have one! It's called merging cons.

merge retains target size hence one really shouldnt use it outside of combat situations...

Why not:

1) Give PTRS penals "fast shooting" ability, they will unload whole magazine of PTRS faster
2) Maybe consider giving them sprint ability at vet2\3 to allow usage of satchels more possible
3) Also PTRS themselfs could fallow tommie AT squad. They have much better acc. vs inf (or at least it feels like it) and aswell I belive they can even out-shoot if they have vision with their AT rifles.

Why not:

1) Give PTRS penals "fast shooting" ability, they will unload whole magazine of PTRS faster
2) Maybe consider giving them sprint ability at vet2\3 to allow usage of satchels more possible
3) Also PTRS themselfs could fallow tommie AT squad. They have much better acc. vs inf (or at least it feels like it) and aswell I belive they can even out-shoot if they have vision with their AT rifles.

Not sure what the first point should bring. PTRS Penals do well against light vehicles so this ability is not needed at that point. Against mediums+ they do quite badly, faster shooting would not help that much because you'd probably have to double the damage output.
Second point might cause quite some issues to balance, since sprinting satchels can be extremely powerful. Especially at vet3 where they get cheaper. This change might cause more rebalances on other ends, I somewhat doubt that it would really improve the unit.
Last point already is reflected in Guards.

Thin people underestimate mass PTRS vs Vehicles. The weapons always hit have deflection and cause criticals.

These where should not be spamable.

Penal are badly designed and they should be redesigned and bring something different to hte table for Soviet faction.

There many solution on that:
One could be to become similar to osttruppen in role (not in implementation) as early unit used for fast capping and map control that would justify the T1 building cost.

id say massed zooks schrecks and piats outclass massed PTRS but ok...

The new Su-76 vet 1 ability seems a bit lackluster. Why? The unit is locked in place, meaning you lose precious seconds for a low hp unit. The base damage is weak and penetration versus mediums isn't reliable. For me a better choice would be buffing the unit. Increase base damage to 160, but remove the vet 2 bonus damage and reduce its base rate of fire. Increase fuel cost from 75 to 90. Vet 2 reverts rate of fire and Vet 3 gives it better penetration to engage heavies, to reward your hard work for maintaining it into late game. Increase veterancy so the unit does not dominate. And maybe increase pop by 1. Also reduce the cooldown for barrage ability, this will also make it more attractive. You already spend muni and it isn't reliable, so why make it more frustrating to use.


Instead rework Su-85, merge the spotting cone and ambush camouflage into one. This ability would be similar to spotting scopes of Werh, meaning its passive. It requires vet 1. When the unit is still and out of combat for 10 seconds it will camouflage and the spotter pops up activating the sight cone. Once the unit moves or is in combat it breaks camo and loses sight. Include hold fire ability and add handbrake to prevent the unit from breaking the camo. This will allow the unit to become a tank hunter as it should be.

The ISU-152 nerf seems a bit harsh, especially since they are reworking axis artillery(which I like). Meaning AT weapons are now in more danger and Tank destroyers take a lot of pop, which you don’t see them as much. Instead of 60, 65 is a bit more forgiving. Not to mention another thing to help out balancing is reducing the HE rounds penetration, so that players are forced to change between rounds. This will also require buffing the AP rounds. Nothing is more frustrating using AP rounds and not penetrating reliably.
Another option is to add a small setup time like team weapons. This will allow opponents more strategies, like forcing the unit to stay on the move. This will make the user have a harder time defending its position and when it's on the offensive. The change requires to revert the HE range to 70 but the AP rounds adjustment mentioned above is still needed.

As for the t-34/76 and 85 changes are quite rough. I gotta agree with previous comments. I mean why would you vet a unit and then waste after you spend a hard time vetting it. Instead make it easier to cancel or give it requirements to use. For example it cost 50 muni and if the HP drops below 50 percent the unit cannot use the ability. In the description it can say the engine is in poor condition and cannot increase acceleration. Now if the unit is vet 2(or 3) and the player wants to gamble he can use an upgraded version of the ability which doesn't cost muni and the HP condition is removed, the description can say that veteran crew members can push the engine beyond its limit.

Thin people underestimate mass PTRS vs Vehicles. The weapons always hit have deflection and cause criticals.

These where should not be spamable.

Penal are badly designed and they should be redesigned and bring something different to hte table for Soviet faction.

There many solution on that:
One could be to become similar to osttruppen in role (not in implementation) as early unit used for fast capping and map control that would justify the T1 building cost.

Schreks, zooks, and piats can all be massed and they all perform better than PTRS rifles with way higher alpha strike potential.

There is no reason why Penal upgraded with ptrs rifles should be terrible late game from a balance perspective.

Penals are not badly designd. They just need some tweeking. Your idea is worse. Cheap spammable infantry benefits are negated by having to build T1 first and T1 offers no support weapons to help you hold the ground you have taken.

Penal are badly designed and they should be redesigned and bring something different to hte table for Soviet faction.

There many solution on that:
One could be to become similar to osttruppen in role (not in implementation) as early unit used for fast capping and map control that would justify the T1 building cost.

This is yet another awful post.

Conscripts already fill the role you describe. That much is clear to anyone that plays soviets.

Schreks, zooks, and piats can all be massed and they all perform better than PTRS rifles with way higher alpha strike potential.

And that is why they are more expensive

There is no reason why Penal upgraded with ptrs rifles should be terrible late game from a balance perspective.

Yes there. If one make PTRS good at late tank both Penal and Guards will be broken.

Penal will offer great early AI, Anti light capability and late AT capability and there will be no reason to use anything else.

Guards will will be able to fight most infatry and all vehicles.

Unit that can do everything efficiently are bad to diversity.

Penals are not badly designd.

Yes they are. Their semi elite status makes arrive to early and it has been attempted to balance them with long build time that does not work the same across game modes while they fail miserably in "anti light vehicles" role only to be frustrating for both user and opponent with their satchel charges and AT satchels charges.

They just need some tweeking. Your idea is worse. Cheap spammable infantry benefits are negated by having to build T1 first and T1 offers no support weapons to help you hold the ground you have taken.

That is they would have to be used with conscripts an offensive and defensive infatry.

And if you do not like this particular design there many other also.

This is yet another awful post.

Conscripts already fill the role you describe. That much is clear to anyone that plays soviets.

Yet most people playing in the last tournament did not play Soviet because conscripts could not keep vs osttruppen and that is pretty clear.

Thin people underestimate mass PTRS vs Vehicles. The weapons always hit have deflection and cause criticals.

I'll put on some weight and try T1 again.

Thin people underestimate mass PTRS vs Vehicles. The weapons always hit have deflection and cause criticals.

Ah yes, trading lack of food for extra mass in combat. I see we’re taking capitalist dogma quite literally.

Brb gonna see if a cheeseburger improves my PTRS Penals play.

There needs to be more clearification of what ppl realy want to penals.

Is AT perfomance is poor for later game, and it needs to be buffed.
Is AI perfomance is bad and needs to be buffed.

Penals as they are, are great early game to mid game. Maindraw backs on them, being tech\cost, which is holding them back because map controll suffers. But they cant keep their power as it is right now, from the get go and resive any major cost reduction.

I would honestly love them to start with 3 mosins and 3 svts, and mosins doesnt have to be clone of cons mosins.

Later they can resive addition 3 svts which will be more powerfull then it is right now, to provide better scaling.

As for PTRS, maybe just consider giving them 4 PTRS.

Idea would be:
1) They are cheaper, start with 3 mosins 3 SVTs
2) AT upgrade arriving as it is right now, with 2 PTRS
3) Lets say upon T3 build, you gain an ability to give additional 3 SVTs to non PTRS squads, for free. Over-all perfomance of them should be better then it is right now. Maybe some stats buffs with it. Locks out PTRS upgrade
4) For squads with PTRS upgraded, you gain an option to give additional 2 PTRS for free.

While sure PTRS is not as cool as piats\shrecks\zooks they are still fine at biting HP out of tanks, the only problem with it is that they have to massed. With 4 PTRS option, you would have an dedicated AT squad and 2 of them would be 8 PTRS which will be very significant.

And that is why they are more expensive

Expensive, but not limited to any number. So they can be spammed, and there is no reason why the PTRS shouldn't be able to be spammed.

Yes there. If one make PTRS good at late tank both Penal and Guards will be broken.

Units can have different abilities with the same weapons. Any changes to Penals do not need to affect guards/conscript PTRS.

Penal will offer great early AI, Anti light capability and late AT capability and there will be no reason to use anything else.

Unit that can do everything efficiently are bad to diversity.

Unfounded fear mongering. PTRS penals are easily cost-effectively countered by infantry the same as SchrekPgrens are.

Yes they are. Their semi elite status makes arrive to early and it has been attempted to balance them with long build time that does not work the same across game modes

No units perform the same across game modes.

while they fail miserably in "anti light vehicles" role only to be frustrating for both user and opponent with their satchel charges and AT satchels charges.

Which is why they need some tweaking.

That is they would have to be used with conscripts an offensive and defensive infantry.

That would be about as effective as Ostruppen / Grens combo if you strip away all the support weapons, make OST T1 twice as expensive, make LMG42 a T4 unlock, and make side-tech out of faust/grenade.

...
Which is why they need some tweaking. ...

If you are suggesting that PTRS should become as good as schrecks that is more than "some tweaking".

But go ahead with your own suggestions.

On a fresh topic, the changes to M3 might make it too vulnerable to being burst down by small arms fire. A sturm and a volks crossing paths with it will wipe it out.

Also MGs of different types will enjoy the armour nerf.

Maybe HP from 240 to 250.

On a fresh topic, the changes to M3 might make it too vulnerable to being burst down by small arms fire. A sturm and a volks crossing paths with it will wipe it out.

Also MGs of different types will enjoy the armour nerf.

Maybe HP from 240 to 250.

That's indeed the case. The change was a nerf at most ranges. Small arms now penetrate a lot and the car kinda melts. It has a tiny better chance to survive after getting fausted, if enough support is arround, but it generally performs the same or worse and repairs take a bit longer.

On a fresh topic, the changes to M3 might make it too vulnerable to being burst down by small arms fire. A sturm and a volks crossing paths with it will wipe it out.

Also MGs of different types will enjoy the armour nerf.

Maybe HP from 240 to 250.

Having tried it out in a competitive preview 1v1 game, I’ll take the preview version in a heartbeat over live. Shared veterancy and vet 2 capping are incredibly useful.

I'll put on some weight and try T1 again.

Turns out Doritos and Mountain Dew was his secret all along!

And whoever thinks PTRS deals any kind of noticeable damage to front armor of any vehicle armored better then an ostwind is a clown completely detached from any kind of reality.