I'm supprised no one here has mentioned the STUG III ASSAULT GUN . It is in a horrible spot and a good runner to be the most useless unit in the game.
I think it's best to make the stug 3 similar in role to the m8 motor carriage that relies on long range focused bombardment.
Also :
The panther does not need a static accuracy buff it needs more than anything a MOVING accuracy buff. It's entire role relies on chasing down other tanks as It doesn't have the range or the sight.
[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback
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6 Jan 2021, 17:08 PM
#461
Posts: 232
6 Jan 2021, 17:21 PM
#462
Posts: 1979
who say i cant? that is besides a pakwall + panther cost tons more. and pak are getting nerfs against rushing sov infantry!
im saying su85 is way too cost effective. 60TD are just too dominant in 2v2.
su85 30% to 20% vet nerf is the bare minimum. then they had to deduct brumbar armor for no reasons, while free passes to KV and Churchills and BD Shermans!
a pak wall + panther? yeah...
but 1 pak 40 alone can push off the SU-85 already... thats much cheaper than an SU-85
6 Jan 2021, 17:24 PM
#463
Posts: 232
a pak wall + panther? yeah...
but 1 pak 40 alone can push off the SU-85 already... thats much cheaper than an SU-85
No tank destroyer should be able to self spot though, its just bad design . It would go a long way in balancing the TD meta .
6 Jan 2021, 17:25 PM
#464
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No tank destroyer should be able to self spot though, its just bad design . It would go a long way in balancing the TD meta .
Agree, command panther should not have 50 sight range anymore.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Jan 2021, 17:27 PM
#465
Posts: 1979
No tank destroyer should be able to self spot though, its just bad design . It would go a long way in balancing the TD meta .
and neither should it be possible to put spotting scopes on an elefant... but here we are...
in any case if you really cant deal with the SU-85 im afraid thats on you... a single pak 40 already prevents it from destroying ur armor...
6 Jan 2021, 18:27 PM
#466
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Spotting scopes on Elefant became almost pointless as means to self-spot once the delay was added.
The unit requires other unit to spot in most cases.
The unit requires other unit to spot in most cases.
6 Jan 2021, 18:34 PM
#467
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Spotting scopes on Elefant became almost pointless as means to self-spot once the delay was added.
The unit requires other unit to spot in most cases.
So there is no point to still allow the unit to have the upgrade on it if its pointless anyway +its bad design to allow unit an upgrade that is pointless for it, don't you agree?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Jan 2021, 18:40 PM
#468
Posts: 195
I'm supprised no one here has mentioned the STUG III ASSAULT GUN . It is in a horrible spot and a good runner to be the most useless unit in the game.
I think it's best to make the stug 3 similar in role to the m8 motor carriage that relies on long range focused bombardment.
Do you mean the doctrinal Stug III
Otherwise, the standard Stug III has great value and can punch above its weight.
Spotting scopes on Elefant became almost pointless as means to self-spot once the delay was added.
The unit requires other unit to spot in most cases.
Indeed, as small position adjustments are often needed, the Elefant's scope isn't 100% reliable and its better to keep an actual recon vehicle close by. It's still a nice extra feature to have, of course.
6 Jan 2021, 18:45 PM
#469
Posts: 1594
Do you mean the doctrinal Stug III G with the exploding shells? I agree it is one of the doctrinal units that feel half-finished, like the PzIV Command Tank.
Otherwise, the standard Stug III has great value and can punch above its weight.
Indeed, as small position adjustments are often needed, the Elefant's scope isn't 100% reliable and its better to keep an actual recon vehicle close by. It's still a nice extra feature to have, of course.
STUG E, not STUG G, the G is the nondoctrinal AT version.
6 Jan 2021, 19:18 PM
#470
Posts: 290
Agree, command panther should not have 50 sight range anymore.
Agree SU-85 "spotting scope" should be removed. Good job katitof u are helpful.
6 Jan 2021, 19:55 PM
#471
Posts: 232
Spotting scopes is a doctrine choice and should be allowed. Allow me to rephrase my previous post statement..
No TD at STOCK should be able to self spot for itself... if you want to spam TD's then you should at least have a spotter for them. This would also help solve the problem the panther tank is also having now as it will have more opportunities to actually flank and punish TD's that push to far forward.
No TD at STOCK should be able to self spot for itself... if you want to spam TD's then you should at least have a spotter for them. This would also help solve the problem the panther tank is also having now as it will have more opportunities to actually flank and punish TD's that push to far forward.
6 Jan 2021, 21:14 PM
#472
Posts: 1289
Spotting scopes is a doctrine choice and should be allowed. Allow me to rephrase my previous post statement..
No TD at STOCK should be able to self spot for itself... if you want to spam TD's then you should at least have a spotter for them. This would also help solve the problem the panther tank is also having now as it will have more opportunities to actually flank and punish TD's that push to far forward.
We need to look at the faction each td is in. The t34 being the weakest out of all the mediums justyfies the su85 being so good with is balanced spotting ability. Same as the mg42 being so good cuz grens arent on par with other mainline in effectiveness.
The su85 focused sight is well balanced, it has a cooldown a speed penalty and looses its 360 vision but wich is counteracted by any unit nearby ofcource.
The su85 also has only 1 role and that is fight armour, both panthers and even the stug no matter how effective can fight infantry, panthers can slug it out with any heavy allies have.
And if the su85 should loose the spotting wich imo it shoudnt. What does it get in return? More flares? Twp like ability? Switchable rounds? Or 260 armour?
6 Jan 2021, 22:44 PM
#473
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
We need to look at the faction each td is in. The t34 being the weakest out of all the mediums justyfies the su85 being so good with is balanced spotting ability. Same as the mg42 being so good cuz grens arent on par with other mainline in effectiveness.
The su85 focused sight is well balanced, it has a cooldown a speed penalty and looses its 360 vision but wich is counteracted by any unit nearby ofcource.
The su85 also has only 1 role and that is fight armour, both panthers and even the stug no matter how effective can fight infantry, panthers can slug it out with any heavy allies have.
And if the su85 should loose the spotting wich imo it shoudnt. What does it get in return? More flares? Twp like ability? Switchable rounds? Or 260 armour?
Focus sight on it own would be probably ok if it was a timed ability and not a toggle.
Combined with tracking is simply silly. But this a thread for Ostheer.
6 Jan 2021, 22:44 PM
#474
Posts: 232
We need to look at the faction each td is in. The t34 being the weakest out of all the mediums justyfies the su85 being so good with is balanced spotting ability. Same as the mg42 being so good cuz grens arent on par with other mainline in effectiveness.
The su85 focused sight is well balanced, it has a cooldown a speed penalty and looses its 360 vision but wich is counteracted by any unit nearby ofcource.
The su85 also has only 1 role and that is fight armour, both panthers and even the stug no matter how effective can fight infantry, panthers can slug it out with any heavy allies have.
And if the su85 should loose the spotting wich imo it shoudnt. What does it get in return? More flares? Twp like ability? Switchable rounds? Or 260 armour?
It shouldn't be replaced with anything to do with vision that's for sure!. The whole TD self spotting at stock meta really should go . If you were to give it something else than that would just cause problems again. The SU85 gun is amazing and it has range what more could you want ? having self spotting is just over the top.
Having it's sight narrowed really does nothing because any unit nearby will provide 360 vision. I honestly think to really improve coh there should be less of 1 unit that does everything and anything.. and more focus on unit teamwork and combined arms to win the day.
7 Jan 2021, 01:26 AM
#475
Posts: 449
It shouldn't be replaced with anything to do with vision that's for sure!. The whole TD self spotting at stock meta really should go . If you were to give it something else than that would just cause problems again. The SU85 gun is amazing and it has range what more could you want ? having self spotting is just over the top.
Having it's sight narrowed really does nothing because any unit nearby will provide 360 vision. I honestly think to really improve coh there should be less of 1 unit that does everything and anything.. and more focus on unit teamwork and combined arms to win the day.
SU85 kind of needs it though. The Jackson has speed, the Firefly has a stunsnare, the Jagdpanzer IV has camo. The SU85 needs something unique.
7 Jan 2021, 02:21 AM
#476
Posts: 1794
we just have to accept su85 spotting and tracking powers are here to stay.
just wish people stop underplaying su85 qualities and overplaying panther's.
and also to stop crying about spotting scopes on elefant!
now back to why brumbar gets a -10 armor from no where?
what is it's compensation?
why do kv and churchills AI tanks not get the same 'rebalance'
why was BD blade upgrades posted to shermans, and not 'rebalance' like brumbar now?
just wish people stop underplaying su85 qualities and overplaying panther's.
and also to stop crying about spotting scopes on elefant!
now back to why brumbar gets a -10 armor from no where?
what is it's compensation?
why do kv and churchills AI tanks not get the same 'rebalance'
why was BD blade upgrades posted to shermans, and not 'rebalance' like brumbar now?
7 Jan 2021, 02:34 AM
#477
Posts: 1979
and also to stop crying about spotting scopes on elefant!
im sorry but the elephant alone is a huge problem already in 4v4 teamgames... JT/ISU/ELE are all huge problems in 4v4s...
Agree SU-85 "spotting scope" should be removed. Good job katitof u are helpful.
and what do you suppose to replace this ability with? you cant nerf a non OP unit without giving it a replacement...
This would also help solve the problem the panther tank is also having now as it will have more opportunities to actually flank and punish TD's that push to far forward.
im sorry but the panther is very very powerful as it is 2v2 and below... things are different for 4v4s yes but 4v4 itself needs alot of work...
7 Jan 2021, 03:20 AM
#478
Posts: 69
im sorry but the elephant alone is a huge problem already in 4v4 teamgames... JT/ISU/ELE are all huge problems in 4v4s...
That and arty spam
7 Jan 2021, 03:32 AM
#479
Posts: 1794
no doubt elefant is strong to lock down open maps in 4v4. but its rof is slow and cannot chase tanks. It is not as troublesome as ISU152 or JT imo, who both can do AT and AI damages.
7 Jan 2021, 04:07 AM
#480
Posts: 578
Focus sight on it own would be probably ok if it was a timed ability and not a toggle.
Combined with tracking is simply silly. But this a thread for Ostheer.
I see what you're suggesting: that when the commander revamp comes, they should keep spotting scopes and nerf the rest of the abilities in the commander, creating balance
It's Relic's responsibility.
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