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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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8 Dec 2020, 18:16 PM
#181
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2020, 15:15 PMPip

snip


Yep, that is the problem of Osttruppen.

Without changing Grens and Osttruppen, the problem will not be fixed.


Osttruppen have to become more expensive and buffed in ther def. task; Grens need to become more aggressive with e.g. a shock grenade.

-> So Osttruppen + Grens work well, while Grens + PnzGren still stay attractive.

Its not about making Osttruppen better, it is to give Osttruppen the chance to become better by price -> like I posted.



Pip
8 Dec 2020, 18:29 PM
#182
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Yep, that is the problem of Osttruppen.

Without changing Grens and Osttruppen, the problem will not be fixed.


Osttruppen have to become more expensive and buffed in ther def. task; Grens need to become more aggressive with e.g. a shock grenade.

-> So Osttruppen + Grens work well, while Grens + PnzGren still stay attractive.

Its not about making Osttruppen better, it is to give Osttruppen the chance to become better by price -> like I posted.





If your goal is to have a squad who can assault while Osttruppen defend, you'll always be better off with Panzergrenadiers than with Grenadiers, I'm afraid. I'm just not sure if there's room for both Grens and Osttruppen in an Ostheer lineup if Grenadiers remain the same sort of unit as they are now. Even with a stun grenade they're not going to be terribly effective "Assault" infantry.
8 Dec 2020, 19:03 PM
#183
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2020, 18:29 PMPip


If your goal is to have a squad who can assault while Osttruppen defend, you'll always be better off with Panzergrenadiers than with Grenadiers, I'm afraid. I'm just not sure if there's room for both Grens and Osttruppen in an Ostheer lineup if Grenadiers remain the same sort of unit as they are now. Even with a stun grenade they're not going to be terribly effective "Assault" infantry.


I think you are true, but I would be one step in a more clear direction.
8 Dec 2020, 20:05 PM
#184
avatar of Stijndee

Posts: 12

Can we quickly fix the buttons for x and z for the faust and rifle nade back to original state
8 Dec 2020, 20:43 PM
#185
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Can we quickly fix the buttons for x and z for the faust and rifle nade back to original state


That is intentional, as a QoL effort to have all or at least most snares on the same UI button. Especially for the Panzerfaust for OKW and OST, as they are switched for no apparent reason. It's not in the notes yet.
8 Dec 2020, 22:43 PM
#186
avatar of cheese tonkatsu

Posts: 105

1. Brummber
You nerf scott and t70 like that. Nerf brummbar like this?

It just walk into the atgs and destroy em with one shot or two.
Nerf its armor. Nerf its damage. Add target number limit on this, not on t70.
Nerf its range to 35 like you did on 105 bulldozer which has slower shell, narrow aoe, lower armor.

2. medic bunker
increase its cost. don't combine ability with command bunker too cheap
8 Dec 2020, 23:14 PM
#187
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

..Nerf its range to 35 like you did on 105 bulldozer which has slower shell,...

brummbar has range 35 and dozer has faster shell not slower.
8 Dec 2020, 23:39 PM
#188
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 713 | Subs: 2



That is intentional, as a QoL effort to have all or at least most snares on the same UI button. Especially for the Panzerfaust for OKW and OST, as they are switched for no apparent reason. It's not in the notes yet.


I personally don't care about grid keys but changing any hotkeys 7 years after the release of the game is the opposite of a QOL change.
Pip
9 Dec 2020, 02:27 AM
#189
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2020, 23:39 PMGiaA


I personally don't care about grid keys but changing any hotkeys 7 years after the release of the game is the opposite of a QOL change.


For existing players, certainly, but i... suppose it could be argued that its a good change for new players?

I still don't know why Lelic didnt give us the ability to just set our own hotkeys.
9 Dec 2020, 05:17 AM
#190
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

I welcome the hotkey standardization. I've been playing coh2 since the closed beta, but I'll admit to accidently throwing out a rifle nade or two instead of a faust if I've been playing OKW for a minute and switch to Ost.

The bunker change is excellent as well.
9 Dec 2020, 10:26 AM
#191
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

I am not sure about the current Ostheer changes. These are quite big buffs.

Med Kits
-> good change

Bunker
-> not too sure about that, but alright

StuG TWP
-> I think it is too strong. This could allow a lucky StuG to kill a medium without too much reaction time (shoot, insta-stun, third hit is still within stun time, fourth hit needs to be a bit lucky in the pursuit but nothing extraordinary). I'd rather keep it as a support ability which it is now. If necessary, make it cheaper. But it is already very good to take out expensive tanks for a couple of seconds and reduce the damage potential, that way the StuG scales nicely into the late game.

Brummbar barrage
-> good

Osttruppen
-> let's see. Might turn them not viable anymore. Overall I think it is bad to give the same unit different mechanics as it is very hard to communicate to the player why that is. Especially if someone buys the commander he might be disappointed.
9 Dec 2020, 10:42 AM
#192
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

StuG TWP
-> I think it is too strong. This could allow a lucky StuG to kill a medium without too much reaction time (shoot, insta-stun, third hit is still within stun time, fourth hit needs to be a bit lucky in the pursuit but nothing extraordinary)..


StuG ausf.G TWP (now called HEAT Shell) doesn't stun, it disables the gun/turret and vision. Since the StuG isn't a vehicle that can easily chase, it should be easy for any medium to escape. The ability also forces a reload, and it fires only 1 shell (after firing it goes on cooldown despite having a 10s activation timer) which is why it's deemed okay to give it full 160 damage.
9 Dec 2020, 10:45 AM
#193
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2



StuG ausf.F TWP (now called HEAT Shell) doesn't stun, it disables the gun/turret and vision. Since the StuG isn't a vehicle that can easily chase, it should be easy for any medium to escape. The ability also forces a reload, which is why it's deemed okay to give it full 160 damage.


Oh ffs, I still confuse these abilities since they were all called TWP before but did different things.
My bad then, overall it might be okay although I think it might still be on the strong side.
9 Dec 2020, 11:08 AM
#194
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Be aware the 2 different approaches for Osttruppen are just to speed up testing.

At some point a definitive approach will be chosen that will apply to both commanders.
9 Dec 2020, 13:53 PM
#195
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

Be aware the 2 different approaches for Osttruppen are just to speed up testing.

At some point a definitive approach will be chosen that will apply to both commanders.


The idea of 2 different approaches for a certain unit / ability is great and will save a lot of time. I hope you boys do the same again when you work on the commander rework patch.
Pip
9 Dec 2020, 15:36 PM
#196
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



The idea of 2 different approaches for a certain unit / ability is great and will save a lot of time. I hope you boys do the same again when you work on the commander rework patch.


I don't think it's something that can be done in all cases. Both Osttruppen commanders are picked almost solely for the Osttruppen at moment, so for all intents and purposes the commanders are "identical".

That's why doing a split approach is perfectly fine here, but it might not work so well with other commanders.
9 Dec 2020, 18:34 PM
#197
avatar of Shuter_FR

Posts: 29

Hi,

I see nothing about Brummbar shielding, you think this unit have enough shield or need more ?
Because 0 penetration in 8 Shoots with a Sherman or useless Bazooka against.
This unit maybe need some nerf
9 Dec 2020, 18:48 PM
#198
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Hi,

I see nothing about Brummbar shielding, you think this unit have enough shield or need more ?
Because 0 penetration in 8 Shoots with a Sherman or useless Bazooka against.
This unit maybe need some nerf

Hi

Sherman is not meant to counter a Brummbar frontally, it can still penetrate the rear/side.
If you want penetrate a Brummbar use a M36.
10 Dec 2020, 00:51 AM
#199
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

The Main Reason why people are going Ostruppen Strategies is because Grenadiers bleed your manpower dry. Grenadiers should be made more attractive. Ostruppen should feel optional not mandatory to get by the early game.

I would propose a Vet "Smoothing" or reshuffle so to speak. Right Now Grenadiers have

Vet 1 : Unlocks the "Field First Aid" ability.
Vet 2 : +40% accuracy.
Vet 3 :-20% weapon cooldown.
-25% recharge time of the Panzerfaust.
-20% received damage.

I would propose

Vet 1: -10% received damage
Vet 2: -10% received damage
Vet 3: +40% Accuracy
-20% Weapon Cooldown
-25% recharge time of Panzerfaust

Grenadiers would perform the same at Vet 3 but early on they will bleed less at the expense of putting its big damage spike at Vet 3 and also help from losing squads during retreat early on.



The faction is already easy as hell to play and win with I don't see the point of making their alreadu effective units cheaper on reinforcement or purchase cost.
10 Dec 2020, 17:54 PM
#200
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Next change please:

buff Ostheer's fire-boming ability. It is useless.
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