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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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29 Nov 2020, 15:26 PM
#121
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2020, 15:22 PMVipper

again factually wrong . Panther does not start with better accuracy, it has worse accuracy to begin with:

Su-85 Accuracy near 0.055 Accuracy mid 0.045 Accuracy far 0.04
Panther Accuracy near 0.06 Accuracy mid 0.045 Accuracy far 0.035

Explain how you think these stats make panther accuracy 'worse' than the SU85.

Without being utterly subjective.
29 Nov 2020, 16:03 PM
#122
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


Explain how you think these stats make panther accuracy 'worse' than the SU85.

Without being utterly subjective.

Think it obvious but since you ask for help:

Far 0.045>0.0.4 (it also 60 vs 50 even more accurate)
Mid for SU-85 is 30 for panther is 25 so Su-85 is more accurate at 25 than Panther.
Close Panther is superior but that is at range 0 where the projectile will collide anyway so practically no difference.

Can we go back to providing actual feedback instead of this non constructive posts?
29 Nov 2020, 16:14 PM
#123
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2020, 16:03 PMVipper
Far 0.045>0.0.4 (it also 60 vs 50 even more accurate)
Mid for SU-85 is 30 for panther is 25 so Su-85 is more accurate at 25 than Panther.
Close Panther is superior but that is at range 0 where the projectile will collide anyway so practically no difference.


Thank you for demonstrating how much you don't understand coh2 stats.

They're not set values, range near is 0 and mid is 25, so that entire spectrum goes from 60% to 45% for the Panther (uniform scaling), while for the su85 it goes from 55% to 45% from range 0 to range 30. Panther is clearly superior from range 0 to about range 20ish depending on the math.
29 Nov 2020, 16:22 PM
#124
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Thank you for demonstrating how much you don't understand coh2 stats.

Now you too are projecting your own flaws on to others


They're not set values, range near is 0 and mid is 25, so that entire spectrum goes from 60% to 45% for the Panther (uniform scaling), while for the su85 it goes from 55% to 45% from range 0 to range 30. Panther is clearly superior from range 0 to about range 20ish depending on the math.

Never claimed they are set values stop imagining things.

In other word SU-85 according to you SU-85 is more accurate in range above 20 (where it matters) and on top of that it get 3 times the bonus Panther gets and can self spot to take advantage of that accuracy.

Thanks you for proving my points and admitting that your original claim was false.

(unless you want prove that you do not understand coh2 stats and claim that 0-20 accuracy advantage is more important than 20-60)
29 Nov 2020, 16:25 PM
#125
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



lovely idea!
promoting combined arms...feeding the character of the faction.
Lovely.
give it a try!


+1 ^^
29 Nov 2020, 16:26 PM
#126
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2020, 16:22 PMVipper
Never claimed they are set values stop imagining things.


Then I am correct, the Panther is not worse than the SU85 at vet 0.

See you.
29 Nov 2020, 17:42 PM
#128
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

As a nerf to VSL Grenadiers, I would recommend replacing their G43 with a Volksgrenadier StG44. This reduces overlap with the G43 upgrade and still avoids the 80-damage alpha strike issue. With a worse weapon, the RA bonus could be kept the same or maybe just toned down a little, which helps define the upgrade's identity.
29 Nov 2020, 17:59 PM
#129
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

As a nerf to VSL Grenadiers, I would recommend replacing their G43 with a Volksgrenadier StG44. This reduces overlap with the G43 upgrade and still avoids the 80-damage alpha strike issue. With a worse weapon, the RA bonus could be kept the same or maybe just toned down a little, which helps define the upgrade's identity.



Very interesting and original. I agree that G43s are too similar.


I also think I remember ImperialDane mentioning how squad leaders historically would carry StGs.
29 Nov 2020, 20:51 PM
#130
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Consider removing the suppression for the low angle barrage on the PW.
29 Nov 2020, 21:01 PM
#131
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

Consider removing the suppression for the low angle barrage on the PW.

I'm for this as well after seeing Tightrope's vid including a test of it. Nasty enough barrage without extra suppression, your men are kept in place while the rest of the rockets arrive and no way to run out of the 'circle' as you would vs most rocket arty.

Tightrope Tests & Analysis

If you fast forward he also does a comparison between the CalliOP and the PW low-angle barrage.
29 Nov 2020, 21:25 PM
#132
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2020, 14:50 PMKatitof
Also, given ost T2 LV rush meta and how lethal it is especially against soviets who can do nothing without guards against it, perhaps its time to roll back 251 flamer cost change back to 120mun?


If we do nerf them, we do want to check if it is mainly the commander call-ins causing the issue. Osttruppen might receive manpower increases and maybe lock their Fausts to T1 considering it saves considerably more manpower - around 200 - if you went 3 Truppen vs 3 Grenadiers and the T1. And that manpower can be used for anything the Truppen player wishes, including more Osttruppen

Perhaps Flametrack is an issue, but it may also be coloured by the Truppen. So we will get back to you all next iteration.
29 Nov 2020, 21:39 PM
#133
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

LMG Grens suck at attacking entrenched positions where they'Il walk into mines and sandbags, but the faction has plenty of tools to deal with it.

So all I can think of for Grens is rewarding them for having taken up a good defensive position and helping them fend off assaults. Sandbags are out of question, but there are other ways to do it:

- Making the Ostheer bunker 50mp and moving 100mp to the upgrades. Grenadiers now have the option for a more fragile trench they have to pay for, but it can't be stolen.
- Giving their Kar98k's better accuracy against suppressed squads, from 50% to 75%, to promote combined arms play with the MG42 further.

They're Elchino's ideas, which I really like.




[...]

lovely idea!
promoting combined arms



+1

30 Nov 2020, 01:33 AM
#134
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

the LV rush, the 251 and ostp meta, is a top rank 1v1 thing?

in 1000 ranked 2v2, i dont find them abusive. making flame ht is a resource risk that gets shot down shortly.

what does Vsl upgrade gives? +23% ra, 80hp more and g43, and free healing on vet? Are these so OP when there is request to buff stock grens
not sure why need to remove g43 and make doctrine worse?

Im thinking the 23% ra be split between stock grens and vsl.
stock grens get +10% ra at vet2
vsl upgrade adds +13%.

this way allies have more games to acclimatise to slightly hardier grens.

this will solve the power creep and constant changes.
30 Nov 2020, 05:38 AM
#135
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Consider removing the low angle barrage on the PW.


Fixed
30 Nov 2020, 07:47 AM
#136
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97


I'm for this as well after seeing Tightrope's vid including a test of it. Nasty enough barrage without extra suppression, your men are kept in place while the rest of the rockets arrive and no way to run out of the 'circle' as you would vs most rocket arty.

Tightrope Tests & Analysis

If you fast forward he also does a comparison between the CalliOP and the PW low-angle barrage.


Second that. It's basically CalliOP with suppression. Obviously unreasonably strong.

Supression on this ability has to go.
30 Nov 2020, 09:30 AM
#137
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

The HMG formation change is nice but I'm worried it will make the MG42 too powerful. It was already miles ahead of other HMG's now it is harder to kill and can do some self-spotting nonsense like this:



Perhaps the MG42 should get a slight nerf to compensate for the formation buff it's getting.

Here's a replay showing how strong the MG42 is with its formations
30 Nov 2020, 09:59 AM
#138
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

That spacing is the result of issuing a direct attack order, which makes the crew members continue to move forward until the HMG has set up. This has always been possible.

No mod:
30 Nov 2020, 11:56 AM
#139
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



Second that. It's basically CalliOP with suppression. Obviously unreasonably strong.

Supression on this ability has to go.


Agree and I don't know why this was implemented in the first place considering Pwerfer is good enough as it is already. Very weird addition.
30 Nov 2020, 12:06 PM
#140
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2020, 12:28 PMGrim


Yeah this ability has been the bane of team games for too long.

I'd be sad to see it go from an axis perspective as it is nice being able to forget about a unit as soon as it reaches vet 1, then come back to it once its vet 3 if at all.


While it is a joy to use against low-rank blobbers, perhaps in the future the static howitzers could be reworked to be a threat against more experienced players as well. There are effective demonstrations (including B-4) from high level players in recent replays on YT but they are not a dependable choice.


I think that this is one part of COH2 that worked well in the original EFA release when both the Red Army and the Wehrmacht had static heavy artillery weapons with slight differences. With the introduction of the Priests and Sextons, they became outclassed given the game's gradual move towards more mobility.
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