USF Calliope balancing

as a low to med level player the only "counter" i can do is give it stuff to decrew. keep the inf spread out and give it pak or rak to decrew, sort of minimal mp damage until and its a big UNTIL you can dive it with panther and ideally ju87s.

Isn't weapon range tied to cast range? What's the point of the existance of that attribute then? I didn't know weapon range means s***

Without having looked at the AE for this myself, I assume that the weapon range is tied to the actual weapon, eg the rocket.
Since the barrage is cast via an ability and not via autofire, the stat is absolutely meaningless and probably just exists because it has to. I assume every stat has to have some value in the stat sheets, otherwise scripts might error. That's how you end up with 1000 penetration values although the highest armor in the game is not even 400 and even the T34 ram weapon (the weapon is activated after the ram ability was cast and the T34 hits a target) has a reload of a second or so.

It was changed to 400 when its rockets were buffed, so that it will now at least get oneshot by a Stuka Dive Bomb.

Wait, this is even considered a counter?


In total I find the unit to be too durable. It should be at least two-shot by normal tanks, so I'd suggest 320 HP for it.

Its a TANK, not cardboard box on tracks, like pwerfer.

For all intents and purposes it's rocket artillery and even priced similar to other rocket artillery. Balance wise there is not much reason to treat it as a tank.

with what? Last I checked the calliope outranges any AT gun that has the off chance of surviving a shotgun barrage to them.

TIL the AT gun is the only thing that shoots and is capable of shooting rocket arty.
one might try, p4s, pumas, panthers, shreks, tigers, elefants, jagdtigers, pak43s, perhaps stuka close air, or dive bombs..

the resources put into the calliope are resources not put into defending it after all. durability is its whole shtick. thats why it comes at a premium

the resources put into the calliope are resources not put into defending it after all. durability is its whole shtick. thats why it comes at a premium

Well its not like this cant be applyed to any other rocket arty in the game really. If caliope comes when the basic army foundation is already established, then this is not an argument.

Its more like you put resources in it and not putting them into another TD\Medium. But again, same works for any other arty in the game.

I cant really see how caliope is crippeling USF economy that bad, that if called in you wont have tools to protect it, meaning it needs more durability.

Hell, caliope is actually the best rocket arty in the game, or at least very close second (depending on the opinion on panzerwerfer). Katy is useless if you wont drive close with it and land matters is over nerfed garbo. Not counting zu-fuss because its a different unit.


Even if caliope had 320HP (2 shots from tanks) it already would have been 100% more durable then any other rocket arty, simply because:
1) It cant die to small arms
2) It cant be one-shotted
3) It cant be killed by cheap units like 222
4) Cant be counter artyed

Having 400 HP just an over-kill in terms of durability, even for a premium unit. Ppl were complaining about zu-fuss having 320 HP and here we are having 400 HP rocket arty, with armor on top of it.

TIL the AT gun is the only thing that shoots and is capable of shooting rocket arty.
one might try, p4s, pumas, panthers, shreks, tigers, elefants, jagdtigers, pak43s, perhaps stuka close air, or dive bombs..

the resources put into the calliope are resources not put into defending it after all. durability is its whole shtick. thats why it comes at a premium

Well sure if the Calliope drives forward into it, has a beer party and calls the crew Krauts.

What, the bouncing Puma? 4 shots to kill, probably 6-7 effective.

Well its not like this cant be applyed to any other rocket arty in the game really. If caliope comes when the basic army foundation is already established, then this is not an argument.

Its more like you put resources in it and not putting them into another TD\Medium. But again, same works for any other arty in the game.

I cant really see how caliope is crippeling USF economy that bad, that if called in you wont have tools to protect it, meaning it needs more durability.

Hell, caliope is actually the best rocket arty in the game, or at least very close second (depending on the opinion on panzerwerfer). Katy is useless if you wont drive close with it and land matters is over nerfed garbo. Not counting zu-fuss because its a different unit.


Even if caliope had 320HP (2 shots from tanks) it already would have been 100% more durable then any other rocket arty, simply because:
1) It cant die to small arms
2) It cant be one-shotted
3) It cant be killed by cheap units like 222
4) Cant be counter artyed

Having 400 HP just an over-kill in terms of durability, even for a premium unit. Ppl were complaining about zu-fuss having 320 HP and here we are having 400 HP rocket arty, with armor on top of it.

Zu fus could eliminate an entire defensive line, weapons included with pinpoint accuracy while also coming drastically sooner and being cheaper than the calliope.

Frankly, imo, the calliope should be a Sherman variant or upgrade with a munitions barrage like the firefly. It puts strain on the economy for over use which is a balancing factor on its own but also justifies its durability slightly more.

I don't remember the exact cost since it was changed a bit ago, but you are basicly paying more for a worse katyusha EXCEPT that it's more durable.

Imo the Calliope issue becomes worse because of the Urban defence commander which simply bring too much to the table.

Tactical Support Company is far more balanced as a commander.

TIL the AT gun is the only thing that shoots and is capable of shooting rocket arty.
one might try, p4s, pumas, panthers, shreks, tigers, elefants, jagdtigers, pak43s, perhaps stuka close air, or dive bombs..

the resources put into the calliope are resources not put into defending it after all. durability is its whole shtick. thats why it comes at a premium

So your answer is dive it. That's the issue. When diving is the only solution there's probably an issue when a support vehicle has 400 HP and more armor than a t34/76. Good players punish dives with mines, AT walls, snares, supporting armor. 3 shots is WAY to long for example a panther to be focusing solely on a rocket arty piece.

If acceptable means of counter is "dive it", we should bring back the old JT/Ele with 320 damage rounds and just say "dive it". They can't shoot you if you're on their rear. Sarcasm aside, there isn't a reason the unit needs more armor than the t34/76 medium tank. deflecting p4 shots on a rocket arty piece serves no purpose in terms of skill for the calliope user and is just frustrating for the p4 user. Couple it with an HP reduction and a cost reduction and I'd call it good.

Even if caliope had 320HP (2 shots from tanks) it already would have been 100% more durable then any other rocket arty, simply because:
1) It cant die to small arms
2) It cant be one-shotted
3) It cant be killed by cheap units like 222
4) Cant be counter artyed

Neither can priest nor sexton.

100% of doctrinal mobile arty can't be one-shotted or killed by small arms.

Neither can priest nor sexton.

100% of doctrinal mobile arty can't be one-shotted or killed by small arms.

That's a straw man argument.

Does not change anything about the points made in this thread.

landmattress is doctrinal mobile arty, that is too easy to counter/destroy/decrew. but nvm.

keep the armor of calliope to give it a gimmick? and reduce the HP to 2 shot for standard medium tanks? then it would be on the same level as priest/sexton hp wise.

Neither can priest nor sexton.
100% of doctrinal mobile arty can't be one-shotted or killed by small arms.

Do you play cards game? Because your ability to toss and manipulate uncomparable and un-related things into your points are absolutely incredible.

Firsly you say its a tank, now its doc arty what whould be the third I wonder

But anyway. Any rocket arty is much dealier in terms of raw perwormance, simply because you can predict it and its effect is controlable, any howi is not predictable and based on RNG area deniel and lucky shots.

You cant compare slow-firing unit, with much larger scatter and which takes much longer time to finish its barrage.

Not to mention that both prist and sexton are perferctly counterable, just like any other arty in the game. A bit harder, but still it can be punished just like anything else.

Like for real, if you wanna troll or prove your points, bring something controversial worth arguing on.

Do you play cards game? Because your ability to toss and manipulate uncomparable and un-related things into your points are absolutely incredible.

And I'm not even the best one around here at that.
You'll know him when you read him.

Firsly you say its a tank, now its doc arty what whould be the third I wonder

Well...
Show Spoiler

But anyway. Any rocket arty is much dealier in terms of raw perwormance, simply because you can predict it and its effect is controlable, any howi is not predictable and based on RNG area deniel and lucky shots.

You cant compare slow-firing unit, with much larger scatter and which takes much longer time to finish its barrage.

Like for real, if you wanna troll or prove your points, bring something controversial worth arguing on.

Well.... kind of, if you get close enough, otherwise its just as inaccurate and ineffective as any other indirect.

Strength of 3 rocket arty pieces comes from "shotgunning" aka shooting it from short range and calli is one of them.

Also, again, all I said was that all self propelled doctrinal indirect units are durable.

I do agree with one of previous posters who said calli is a relic of nostalgia and much more interesting unit could be added instead, but that's what we have and it does not make much sense to see an actual tank go down to 1 shot of anything in CoH game.

I do agree with one of previous posters who said calli is a relic of nostalgia and much more interesting unit could be added instead, but that's what we have and it does not make much sense to see an actual tank go down to 1 shot of anything in CoH game.

I do agree that it shoudnt and stupid to ask that it should be one-shoted. It can still have armor at least like t34\76, to have chances of bounce, and have its HP to be 320 to make it 2 shots instead of 3.

You still will be somewhat more durable and protected during shotgunning and from tank rush if you properly make your difences, but at the same time enemy wont requare his whole tank army to chase you down.

I also belive, that even if ppl want it to still be distinct, aside from durability, turret rotation can be activated on it, to make it easier to use.

But I'm not sure if launcher itself if mounted to the hull or turret, it needs checking in atrib editor. If it is mounted to the turret then it will work.

Even though it is durable and it's existence is a troubling conundrum, it is quite inaccurate in long range. It's main point is, as Katitof said, shotgun placement. On the front itself carpeting a small area, but densely. I don't usually play Calliop commanders as I find the unit useless most of the time and nothing but a fat kid that likes to eat population.

{{
Also, [bouncing]Puma has a 75% chance to bounce on medium range and 100% on close range so Calliope can be shot down easily enough by one puma, especially in chaotic teamgames, sneakily. That's at least, how I try to shut down stukas and werfers. One sneaky tank driving full speed on the map margins, coming from behind and shooting at it. Penetration of Puma is 160/120/80 which makes it a great light tank killer and medium tank harasser (50 range + speed) }}

I mean, I'm not expert on the unit, but why use Calliope at all? I've seldom seen it do something substantial in my games. Usually it just carpets the OST or OKW encampment and calls it a day while doing little to no dmg (unless really close). One thing I did find is that most of the Calliope-taking-commander allies in 3v3s end up with least kills/dmg, by far.

shotgun placement. On the front itself carpeting a small area, but densely.

All rocket arty has to do the same. Its the same for panzerwerfer, same for katy, landmatters is garbage.

Also, Puma

You shoudnt forger that Ost have puma only in 1 commander and potentually trading off puma as OKW for Caliope as not a good trade for the economy.

SZF doesnt. It has perfect accuracy at all ranges. Friggen needs some accuracy limitations.

And I'm not even the best one around here at that.
You'll know him when you read him.

Grow up and take it to DMs.