USF Calliope balancing

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:46 PMVipper

I highlight what part is we agree in.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:46 PMVipper

If one wants to make Calliope stock one might end up redesign the USF because things like Scott and Major arty might have to go. Simply adding the Calliope to existing USF roster is not something I would agree

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:46 PMVipper

"it's 30 more fuel than Katy and werfer" this is what I responded and I simply pointed out that comparing a unit with high tech cost and one with no cost can be misleading even if it doctrinal.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:46 PMVipper

As I have already pointed out imo the problem has more to do with Urban commander than calliope itself.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:53 PMGachiGasm

Also not to mention that Urban assault, gives yous you access to elite inf + gives upgrades to litteraly all your army and tactival support turns your rifles into terminators with LMG, gives your mobile reinforcement car (+ best AA unit in the game).
Its not like you would pick the commander and only get main use of it by cali.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:59 PMSkysTheLimit

The reason for it to be stock is blobbing. Every faction blobs, and rocket arty is by far the best anti-blob. If we can't fix blobbing the solution is stock rocket arty

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:19 PMGachiGasm

My point was that, that upped USF\UKF blobs are by far the strongest compare to grens\volks blobs. You can counter them by blob of yourself

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:19 PMGachiGasm

while Sov\Ost\OKW cant counter western allies blobs by their blobs, thats why they have stock rocket arty.

At least its my opinion.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:23 PMSkysTheLimit

No you HAVE to counter them by blobbing yourself. That's not good design at all

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:23 PMSkysTheLimit

What the hell happened to Penals and Obers? Did they get deleted from the game?

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:23 PMSkysTheLimit

Ost makes up for it by having the best HMG in the game by far. It's easily the best at countering....blobs

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:19 PMGachiGasm

My point was that, that upped USF\UKF blobs are by far the strongest compare to grens\volks blobs. You can counter them by blob of yourself, while Sov\Ost\OKW cant counter western allies blobs by their blobs, thats why they have stock rocket arty.

At least its my opinion.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:38 PMSupremeStefan

bullshit
What about pak wall? Usf/UKF are hopeless without rocket arty if someone spam at guns

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:10 PMDescolata

Just, both Calliope and SZF are very survivable and obnoxious to deal with. One has health, other has range, both don't have clear cost effective counters.

SZF is generally DEEP behind lines, as it has no reason not to be, unless striking behind the lines.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:20 PMSkysTheLimit

You guys did read the "im fine with 360" part, right?

I've thought the Calliope is bad design for ages. Should be weaker but stock, late-game artillery should not require doctrine for some and be always there for others. Scott is a cool and unique unit, and I would happily trade it in a heartbeat for a weaker calli. Buff scott and move it to doctrine

@Hannibal. 10-15? That 15 only applies to w. Stuka (which can arrive way earlier), it's 30 more fuel than Katy and werfer

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:05 PMthedarkarmadillo

whats the pop costs of various rocket arty?

Jump back to quoted post30 Jul 2020, 19:47 PMKatitof

Its a TANK, not cardboard box on tracks, like pwerfer.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:09 PMGachiGasm

PW\Katy\Stuka -12
Cali\Prist - 15.
Sexton - 14

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:35 PMGachiGasm

If you give rocket arty as stock, it wont change anything. USF\UKF will still blob. People blob because its working, because power of the units allow to do so and its effective.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:35 PMGachiGasm

Blobing Obers? This OKW probably in forbes top 10.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:35 PMGachiGasm

And penals dont scale that good into mid\late game, they also dont have smoke\nades and snares if they dont have PTRS and if they do, their AI is non-problematic is not that good.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:35 PMGachiGasm

HMGs are somewhat soft-counter to blobs, because while you can force them to retreat, you wont bleed their MP, they will just comeback, also considering USF\UKF have forward retreat points, its debatable.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 17:41 PMHannibal

Then it was a misunderstanding, the way you phrased made it look to me like you could agree to 320, but would prefer 400.
Yes, my mistake on the costs. That's a typo and should have been 20-25, not sure why I went with it the second time though...

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:28 PMSkysTheLimit

Yeah and it stops working if you hit them with rocket arty.... What is your point? I already agree ukf and usf blobs are stronger, that's irrelevant to this thread and my point. I'm specifically talking about how badly those factions are designed...

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:28 PMSkysTheLimit

Not really, it's really common in team games

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:28 PMSkysTheLimit

They don't "scale" well only because their starting performance is ferocious. They are plenty strong in a blob. I'm aware of what they do and do not have, you don't need to explain the basic equipment of every unit...

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:28 PMSkysTheLimit

Again you're missing the point. We all know what hmgs do. One of them does it MUCH better than all the others, it's called the mg42

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:43 PMGachiGasm

Ones again. My point is, aside from arty or AI tanks, you cant stop this horde by inf. And USF\UKF horde can stop equal axis horde, thats why axis rely on rocket arty.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:43 PMGachiGasm

Same way Soviets rely on rocket arty if they dont pick doctrine which upps their cons.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:43 PMGachiGasm

Even if so its still punishable by any tank with AI, since obersts dont have any AT nor snare.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 19:59 PMGachiGasm

We are talking about it, because one of your ideas was to add caliope as a stock unit.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 18:43 PMGachiGasm

Even weaker caliope as stock will buff USF already very powerfull AI to be even more, leading that ppl will get caliope clear path for their blob and blobing will become even worst.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 20:12 PMSkysTheLimit

For the last time, I think usf/ukf blobbing ALREADY needs to be looked at, even if you don't make the calliope stock......
It's a separate fucking issue. If you want to talk about it this much, make a thread. Jesus Christ

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 20:33 PMGachiGasm

It WONT be looked at, because balance team already said they wont be touching mainline inf and even if they do, they wont\cant change situation around blobing.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 20:33 PMGachiGasm

Dont bring ideas out of the box and start aurguing on something, which is completly dependant on a different factors of how faction works