AVRE vs SturmTiger

I was playing recently with both units and sturmtiger honestly feels kinda meh, compare to AVRE.

Both units are 8CPs with a cost of :
AVRE 590mp 160f
Sturm 570mp 165f

Then I decided to watch on them in attrib editor.

All stats are taken from attrib editor and you can check them by yourself

Here is what I found:

Show Spoiler

In conclusion ... well I mean, you can see it by yourself, just by comparing them.

Are you trying to say something and forgot to do it?
Because so far there is nothing in this thread to warrant any kind of balance discussion.

Different units have different stats is all this thread says and that isn't a balance forum place.

Are you trying to say something and forgot to do it?
Because so far there is nothing in this thread to warrant any kind of balance discussion.

Different units have different stats is all this thread says and that isn't a balance forum place.

I think guy with 15k posts should have a basic understanding but alright.

AVRE and Sturmtiger are units with relativly save role, same price and same timings.

AVRE by the stats is better pretty much at everything which is related to its role. ST is being better only pretty much at AOE penetration, it deals 140 more damage (which is not enouth to even kill medium) and can sustain 2 more hits but with far inferior armor
While:
1) Lacks turret
2) Shoot slower
3) Have slower movement
4) Vulnerable while reloading
5) Has weaker AOE (Against inf that is)

While again, costing the same and arriving at the same time.

Also if you want to hear, something like "nerf AVRE" or "Buff Sturmtiger", you wont hear it from me, so provoke someone else.

I think guy with 15k posts should have a basic understanding but alright.

AVRE and Sturmtiger are units with relativly save role, same price and same timings.

AVRE by the stats is better pretty much at everything which is related to its role. ST is being better only pretty much at AOE penetration, it deals 140 more damage and can sustain 2 more hits but with far inferior armor
While:
1) Lacks turret
2) Shoot slower
3) Have slower movement
4) Vulnerable while reloading
5) Has weaker AOE (Against inf that is)

While again, costing the same and arriving at the same time.

One can be paired with stock super heavy, other can't.
One is supposed to sit in combat for longer time, other is supposed to take a pot shot and retreat.
Neither should be in game.

Also if you want to hear, something like "nerf AVRE" or "Buff Sturmtiger", you wont hear it from me, so provoke someone else.

Why a thread in balance section if you don't want to talk any balance changes? That belongs to lobby or gameplay.

I've seen units retreating quicker from a SturmTiger which hasn't shot at all than an Avre. SturmTigers are all about the weird psychological factor about just being a constant fear-factor and anxiety to anyone who faces it. It's also a unit which is best somewhat shown to the enemy especially when its cannon are moving and rotating. When I face an Avre, I do not get that feeling, I just bumrush it...

I am not sure either what you intend to do with the thread, the two units are different, they have different stats and different ways of playing it. What is exactly the balance problem you want to point out?

One can be paired with stock super heavy, other can't.
One is supposed to sit in combat for longer time, other is supposed to take a pot shot and retreat.
Neither should be in game.

Well removing them from the game is good but not possible option. I would rather in this case see it not being pared with KT but not being garbage, then being a garbage which can be pared with KT.

Also its dabatable that he is suppose to sit longer in combat, since hes is frontal armor can somewhat tank mediums, but not meta TDs, so in general at very best its on pair with AVRE in terms of how long it should stay on the front line.

Why a thread in balance section if you don't want to talk any balance changes? That belongs to lobby or gameplay.

I want to but honestly after reading some of your posts or the usuall manner that you answer ppl, it feels like you are not here to discuss but to troll. Appologies if I'm mistaken.

I am not sure either what you intend to do with the thread, the two units are different, they have different stats and different ways of playing it. What is exactly the balance problem you want to point out?

I want to point out, that one of the units while being "scary" when you dont know how it works, being inferrior to its counter part in pretty much every way if you combine all pros and cons.

There's nothing wrong with units not being an excel carbon copy of one another. They both fit within their roles, roaster and faction in their own unique way. I see more SturmTigers than Avre, despite Avre having better Excel-Sheet stats.

Wait for rework Royal Engineer Regiment,then they will recollect they forgot nerf AVRE（x）

There's nothing wrong with units not being an excel carbon copy of one another. They both fit within their roles, roaster and faction in their own unique way. I see more SturmTigers than Avre, despite Avre having better Excel-Sheet stats.

Depends on what gamemode you play. If you play 4v4\3v3 with OKW full house you will see it more often then AVRE simply because doctrine comes with the only way OKW can boost their economy and usefull early game LV.

AVRE is being a unit which can make a change, while ST is being a unit which is a gamble.

I understand that ST should have been placed somewhere, because he existed, but aside from meme or luck factor it has no other uses. What the point of having such unit in a first place?

It might not be carbon copy, but it shouldnt be worst at littery everything while being treated as a
exact carbon copy you've mentioned or at least on pair unit with its ups and downs. Otherwise it wouldn't have had same timings and cost.

I do agree with this thread. The stumtiger is a good example of hot trash. It never should have been in the game to begin with but since it's here it should have some use... The old one that you could lead shots and ambush and what not was actually worth building. This one is certainly not. I mean. The old one was good enough it was mutually exclusive with the KT the new one isn't and I still haven't seen one in ages. People pick for the 221/223 and heat not the ST.

Imo one should start with moving the unit to another commander...

ST does not benefit from HEAT shell or Panzer Commanders so there is not that much synergy within Commander.

I thought that the AVRE was significantly better than the ST.
Seeing the stats compared like this, they are quire well balanced actually. Good point, OP

it's ridiculous how Sturmtiger costs more fuel when it's significantly worse unit. I never understood logic behind this
I am not saying they should be copy of each other but ST at least should be compensated for so many drawbacks compared to avre
I also don't understand why potential pairing with KT should be accounted
I care more about TD wall or ram+rockets than AT gun wall if I bring KT into the game

I thought that the AVRE was significantly better than the ST.
Seeing the stats compared like this, they are quire well balanced actually. Good point, OP

AVRE is way better because it has better AOE, has a turret, can reload at full speed on the move and can't get abandoned when reloading in combat.

AVRE should be reload like the sturmtiger , AVRE reload from outside IRL.
[from wiki: The Petard was reloaded by traversing the turret to point front, slightly to the left, with the barrel directly over the co-driver's sliding hatch. The regular two piece co-driver's hatch was plated over, and a small sliding hatch was installed to allow access to the Petard.[41] The Petard barrel would then be 'broken' vertically, and the co-driver would slide open his hatch. The co-driver would then push the projectile into the barrel.[42] The barrel would then be closed, the Petard traversed back down, and the turret rotated back to its original position.[41] The co-driver's hands were briefly exposed during the process.]

also Sturmtiger need to lower it speed to match the AVRE ,it's a f**ing Tiger 1 chassis with 14x 380mm (350kg. each round) total weight almost same as Tiger 2.

also Sturmtiger need to lower it speed to match the AVRE ,it's a f**ing Tiger 1 chassis with 14x 380mm (350kg. each round) total weight almost same as Tiger 2.

Its already slower in general then AVRE, it takes it almost x2 time to reach its maximum speed then it takes AVRE. Meaning if you stoped ones you lose your maximum speed.

I made a thread about this a while back.

There are also several other factors that make the Sturmtiger an inferior counterpart and a brilliant attempt to throw the match.

For example the AVRE reload timer starts when the firing animation cycle starts so the reload timer is ticking before the AVRE has even fired

The biggest power spikes for the units happen when they get a reload time reduction. For AVRE that is vet 1 and is acquired very fast with as little as 2 good hits. As for the ST vet 3 gives similar reload time bonuses so the AVRE power spike happens 2 vet levels earlier.

Also the AVRE vet 3 crit repair is just ridiculous. Even in combat a Vet 3 AVRE is able to repair any engine damaged critical within 15 seconds (for free and automatically) making getting snared much less risky compared to any other non-churchill tank in the entire game.

I did quite a few tests and found out that due to the absolutely garbage AoE damage of the sturmtiger even pinpoint bullseye hits on support weapon teams left the gun and crew alive. This was the case especially with 6 men soviet squads. Meanwhile blind eye has been turned to the AVRE's ability to delete squads much more reliably with its superior AoE profile.

TLDR: Double standards have been applied when these units have been adjusted in the patches (aka AVRE has never been touched )

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+1 to all of this