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Small efficiencies in north spawn camera rotation

A_E
22 May 2020, 11:59 AM
#1
avatar of A_E
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CoH Theory: there are small efficiencies to be found in north spawn camera rotation and making west vs. east maps.

Please actually watch the 9 minute video in full before contradicting the merits of the recommendation.
22 May 2020, 12:19 PM
#2
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

I like that tac map rotation tip. I'll have to give that a go.
22 May 2020, 12:38 PM
#3
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

I thought this was obvious? the camera rotation should start flipped by default when you're in the north.

and on east vs west maps, the default camera should be west facing if you're in east, and east facing if you're in the west.

Other RTs's have default camera positions that change like this, total war to name one.

I always turn my camera that way at game start anyway, all my friends do too. I thought everyone did? The current north-always camera default has been annoying since game launch, was it just us?

Different orientations for different teams doesn't matter because they're not communicating anyway

Having a camera orientation which points into enemy territory give the most breadth of view across your front line and the most depth into the enemy's to see long-ranged units firing at you. If your camera is the other way you are partially blinded.
A_E
22 May 2020, 12:53 PM
#4
avatar of A_E
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 12:38 PMTomDRV
I thought this was obvious? the camera rotation should start flipped by default when you're in the north.

and on east vs west maps, the default camera should be west facing if you're in east, and east facing if you're in the west.

Other RTs's have default camera positions that change like this, total war to name one.

I always turn my camera that way at game start anyway, all my friends do too. I thought everyone did? The current north-always camera default has been annoying since game launch, was it just us?

Different orientations for different teams doesn't matter because they're not communicating anyway

Having a camera orientation which points into enemy territory give the most breadth of view across your front line and the most depth into the enemy's to see long-ranged units firing at you. If your camera is the other way you are partially blinded.


I was getting mocked on a twitch stream earlier today, made me think it wasn't as obvious as I assumed so thought I'd make this video to clarify the logic.
22 May 2020, 12:55 PM
#5
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143

I tried to do that and kinda forgot one could turn the angle when using the tactical map. So i never got a good angle and stopped.

Will definetly try that sooner or later!
22 May 2020, 13:06 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 12:53 PMA_E


I was getting mocked on a twitch stream earlier today, made me think it wasn't as obvious as I assumed so thought I'd make this video to clarify the logic.

Well some people seem to like to troll regardless if they right or wrong.

Nice thread by the way.
22 May 2020, 13:07 PM
#7
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

actually i never turned the map Becouse i found the angle very hard to get, thanks for the tip turning it with tac map, that way you can keep the angle you are used to. I will definetly try it out
22 May 2020, 13:11 PM
#8
avatar of suora

Posts: 101

actually i never turned the map Becouse i found the angle very hard to get, thanks for the tip turning it with tac map, that way you can keep the angle you are used to. I will definetly try it out


You probably know this but you can also reset the pitch angle by hitting backspace just once.

Personally I can't be bothered with rotating the map, because you have to re-do it every time that you want to rotate the map for some other purpose, such as wiring off the doors of buildings.
A_E
22 May 2020, 13:16 PM
#9
avatar of A_E
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 13:11 PMsuora


You probably know this but you can also reset the pitch angle by hitting backspace just once.

Personally I can't be bothered with rotating the map, because you have to re-do it every time that you want to rotate the map for some other purpose, such as wiring off the doors of buildings.


Great point but max how many times is this per game are we talking 3 maybe? 2 door wires and a demo check let's say?

So three times you'd have to go to tac map and quickly manoeuvre to your preferred angle?

Still seems worth it imo.
22 May 2020, 13:37 PM
#10
avatar of didimegadudu

Posts: 66

i find that low level players tend to rotate their camera angle, whereas high level players dont usually do that, to keep it consistent
22 May 2020, 13:41 PM
#11
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

I prefer to lower the angle because as you explained it opens the vision angle. The only trouble with that is tall trees that mask some portion of the field.

I miss a lot less action with that. (and turning the camera ofcourse)
A_E
22 May 2020, 13:45 PM
#12
avatar of A_E
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i find that low level players tend to rotate their camera angle, whereas high level players dont usually do that, to keep it consistent


I find that not many people do really, in similar ratios. Notable top players are Jove and Bulat one an all time great, and the other a top 20 player (both Russian).
A_E
22 May 2020, 13:46 PM
#13
avatar of A_E
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 13:41 PMEsxile
I prefer to lower the angle because as you explained it opens the vision angle. The only trouble with that is tall trees that mask some portion of the field.

I miss a lot less action with that. (and turning the camera ofcourse)


This is so important for casting 2v2 both me and tightrope do this.
22 May 2020, 14:07 PM
#14
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 12:53 PMA_E


I was getting mocked on a twitch stream earlier today, made me think it wasn't as obvious as I assumed so thought I'd make this video to clarify the logic.


I don't think anyone can be accused of being at fault for not recognising it, it's it's hard to pick up on if someone hasn't played many RTS games, but if you have it glares you in the face. Mechanics like I mentioned should be a given for any RTS game, along with, in my opinion, full-map zoom outs like in Wargame & steel division. There's no gameplay reason to restrict a player's view, it just makes it harder to absorb information.

That players have to consciously adjust in COH2 is a failure in ui design.

Actually the whole COH2 ui is pretty bad, so much dead space.

P.S I have a 1920x1080 display, my hud scale adjustment it locked on max, how do I reduce it?
22 May 2020, 14:26 PM
#15
avatar of elchino7
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 14:07 PMTomDRV


I don't think anyone can be accused of being at fault for not recognising it, it's it's hard to pick up on if someone hasn't played many RTS games, but if you have it glares you in the face. Mechanics like I mentioned should be a given for any RTS game, along with, in my opinion, full-map zoom outs like in Wargame & steel division. There's no gameplay reason to restrict a player's view, it just makes it harder to absorb information.

That players have to consciously adjust in COH2 is a failure in ui design.


It depends on the type of game and how they are designed. The titles you mention are less RTS and more RTT (with CoH been a mix).

Take SC, C&C, AoE or WC*. You don't need to rotate the camera cause what you can see in the screen is already aligned to a square/rectangle. In WC3 you can zoom in, but that's only helpful for when there are enough units on top of each other (specially fliers) that you need to give a specific command and is the one who has the closest relation with CoH in regards unit preservation.
Try to do the same in CoH and you realise how small the vision is, on top of the game not been designed to work in that way.
22 May 2020, 15:05 PM
#16
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

I've always rotated my camera angle but being a team game guy when people saying east/west/north/south I usually have to tell them to just blip the map
22 May 2020, 15:19 PM
#17
avatar of Hannibal
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My experience from checking camera angles on replays is that most people (at least at my level) do not rotate the camera and use the default one instead.
22 May 2020, 17:26 PM
#18
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 13:16 PMA_E


Great point but max how many times is this per game are we talking 3 maybe? 2 door wires and a demo check let's say?

So three times you'd have to go to tac map and quickly manoeuvre to your preferred angle?

Still seems worth it imo.


Thanks! I usually rotate, but it's annoying to have to try to find the right elevation angle. It's much easier to do it with the Tac map.

IMO, moving units into the position you want is easier if you rotate your views. It's really annoying when you try to tell your units to get behind a wall and use the green cover, but you click a pixel too far and they vault instead.
22 May 2020, 17:35 PM
#19
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

You can also rotate and press backspace once (instead of twice) same effect as rotating in tacmap.
22 May 2020, 18:12 PM
#20
avatar of Tobis
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I've always rotated the camera, and when I used to stream people would complain about it all the time.

Streamers and casters stick with the standard because it keeps things consistent across different maps and spawns. I'd bet more people actually rotate the camera when they are playing in private, you just don't see it.

For me atleast it has always been about pushing towards the enemy. It feels a lot more natural to me to be making forward progress across the map. In CoH it also makes it much easier to put your units into cover, which is usually facing the enemy.
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Osinyagov: Suddenly, coh2 is slowly dying, but you can play it, playerbase still big enough
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
Osinyagov: Wow, i remember you from zansi and vali videos, good old memories
09 Apr 2025, 16:58 PM
Beinhard: o7 miss this game and zansi
09 Apr 2025, 14:09 PM
Lady Xenarra: @Willy Pete The lack of April Fools this year is odd lol
02 Apr 2025, 01:34 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus :*(
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
dasheepeh: it was an honor guys :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:34 PM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
Rosbone: @dasheepeh I guess that means this site is officially dead :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:19 PM
dasheepeh: no comic sans font for april 1st this year?
01 Apr 2025, 19:56 PM
Willy Pete: @Lady Xenarra this you? https://i.imgflip.com/3e4thi.jpg
01 Apr 2025, 02:53 AM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
25 Mar 2025, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM

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