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Looks Like I Owe Sander An Apology

21 Apr 2020, 17:04 PM
#21
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

A balance team made up of top modders, unit stat nerds, top players all with years of experience are good at balancing?

You don't say (yes there is sarcasm used here :P)


"No plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force."

Thousands of people playing thousands of games beats any testing been done on any preview. I would say that it doesn't exist in ANY asymmetrical game a good balance team BUT sensible ones. You never achieve complete balance, you just slightly shift the meta without breaking the game while giving player a somehow false, somehow true notion that things are fair and balanced.



So if most high level people agree it's UP but it's used once or twice in a tournament it's balanced?

Hell even the balance team agrees it's UP but don't know how to fix it so they leave it as it is lol.


Units exist in other realms besides OP and UP. One of those is been niche. The PUMA could be tried to be put at 4CP but i don't think the unit been present on a single commander should be ever be made meta or too reliable.
If OH struggles against LV it should be the 222 and pak (recently buffed) job to hold the faction together. It's been proved that with enough pressure and aggressiveness OH players are able to bleed out SU who struggles in the transition between early game towards T70.
21 Apr 2020, 17:13 PM
#22
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Units exist in other realms besides OP and UP. One of those is been niche. The PUMA could be tried to be put at 4CP but i don't think the unit been present on a single commander should be ever be made meta or too reliable.
If OH struggles against LV it should be the 222 and pak (recently buffed) job to hold the faction together. It's been proved that with enough pressure and aggressiveness OH players are able to bleed out SU who struggles in the transition between early game towards T70.


Well my idea was that if 4CP is too early and 5CP is too late, you can find a middle ground somehow. The best approach in my view would be to put the Puma at 4CP, increase the cost to 350mp 90 fuel, and increase the build time by about 10 seconds. That way it becomes a significant investment, is less of a reactionary pick and still arrives at an early enough point to do its job. If that’s still too good then maybe the commander could be nerfed by replacing smoke on vehicles with a stuka smoke run.
21 Apr 2020, 18:09 PM
#23
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958


Earlier posts:

I am simply asking if they will walk away if a big tournament ends up being ruined because of their decisions. Nothing more nothing less.

No it’s not, it’s the bare minimum anyone with dignity would do. If you and anyone else has an issue with me raising that point, let me be extremely clear: I don’t give a shit.

It’s not about “my request”. It’s not even a request. I’m just bringing to people’s attention that there is a responsibility that has to be accepted and if a big tournament is ruined then someone needs to take responsibility from it.



I wasn’t proven wrong. I said Brits OP, this was not shot down at all.

I didn’t call for anyone’s resignation, I asked if there would be consequences if the tournament is ruined.

Learning english is fun, I recommend it.

I’m also done debunking the same stupidity every day.


You didn't call for their resignation, you just said that they should "walk away" if the tournament was ruined. Tell me, now that the tournament wasn't ruined, are consequences only for some people, or do you not have the bare minimum dignity that you expected from the balance team?

21 Apr 2020, 18:16 PM
#24
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2020, 10:56 AMLago


I'd like to see it go back to 20% DR but not affect teammates


Works for me. I know people think the current CP4 is useless but the old one was absurdly OP in team games
21 Apr 2020, 18:45 PM
#25
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Keep in mind when trying to up the CP dage reduction that grens now already get a 10% damage reduction at vet 3. 30% would be ungodly.... I'd sooner the CP become a proper officer unit that rewards good play instead of a passive that makes even bad players better.
21 Apr 2020, 18:47 PM
#26
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Keep in mind when trying to up the CP dage reduction that grens now already get a 10% damage reduction at vet 3. 30% would be ungodly.... I'd sooner the CP become a proper officer unit that rewards good play instead of a passive that makes even bad players better.


I thought Grens already got 20% DR.
CT Aura being 10% post nerf, so you can get 30% DR in game right now, which is all kind so silly.
OST UP though. Worst Faction. Kappaccino.
21 Apr 2020, 18:49 PM
#27
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



I thought Grens already got 20% DR.
CT Aura being 10% post nerf, so you can get 30% DR in game right now, which is all kind so silly.
OST UP though. Worst Faction. Kappaccino.

I thought it was only 10 but I've been wrong before. If it is 20% then absolutely no to CP going back to 20% that would be utterly insane
21 Apr 2020, 19:00 PM
#28
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2020, 10:52 AMKatitof
Given the shitstorm before the tournament, you're not the only one who owes apology to balance team as a whole.


I agree. Calling out people like miragefla was pretty cringeworthy and sad.
21 Apr 2020, 21:01 PM
#29
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

What happened this patch? The reactions to it seem so hostile here. I expect that on the other forums, but not this one.
21 Apr 2020, 21:40 PM
#30
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



I thought Grens already got 20% DR.
CT Aura being 10% post nerf, so you can get 30% DR in game right now, which is all kind so silly.
OST UP though. Worst Faction. Kappaccino.


0.8 * 0.9 = -28% :(
21 Apr 2020, 21:54 PM
#31
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

What happened this patch? The reactions to it seem so hostile here. I expect that on the other forums, but not this one.


People hate UKF since CoH1.
21 Apr 2020, 22:41 PM
#32
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 309

I look forward to trying the puma changes for Ostheer! Also I've been told, from a source I will not name, that UKF is the troll faction. I don't mind them being in the game though
22 Apr 2020, 00:47 AM
#33
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479

Or maybe we slightly tone the T-70 down so Ostheer doesn't need to have the 222/Puma buffed further to deal with it imo.
22 Apr 2020, 03:25 AM
#34
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1


I thought it was only 10 but I've been wrong before. If it is 20% then absolutely no to CP going back to 20% that would be utterly insane


DR is hard to balance since numbers are usually very small, makes knowing the hidden stats even harder, I have no idea if it stacks additively or multiplicatively.
22 Apr 2020, 04:19 AM
#35
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



DR is hard to balance since numbers are usually very small, makes knowing the hidden stats even harder, I have no idea if it stacks additively or multiplicatively.


I think everything in COH2 is multiplicative. For example, a 2% penetration bulletin takes the base number and multiplies it by 1.02. A PTRS with 80 (or whatever it is) would have 81.6 pen after the bulletin. If it was shooting at something with an armor of 240, it would have had about a 33% chance to pen. With the 2% bulletin, the chance would go to 34%, not 35%. I think RA bonuses work the same way. For example, if a squad had a base 10% and a vet 3 20%, their received accuracy would be 0.8*0.9=.72 at vet 3.

The RA numbers end up being a little counter intuitive. With the 0.8 and 0.9 example, you might think you're getting less by stacking since the total RA would be -0.28, but the squad is 1/0.72 = 1.39 or 39% stronger.

22 Apr 2020, 04:46 AM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2020, 00:47 AMClarity
Or maybe we slightly tone the T-70 down so Ostheer doesn't need to have the 222/Puma buffed further to deal with it imo.


And by doing so, you need to bring the whole T3 to arrive sooner. The performance atm is tied to how late it arrives compared to all other lights.
22 Apr 2020, 06:06 AM
#37
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

T70 is fine man, no need to come sooner, come on.
22 Apr 2020, 09:54 AM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



And by doing so, you need to bring the whole T3 to arrive sooner. The performance atm is tied to how late it arrives compared to all other lights.

or you can simply make the T-70 a bit cheaper.

Lowering the power level of unit should create less issues.
22 Apr 2020, 15:22 PM
#39
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

well it was expected that it would not be so op, i mean look at the valentine, it's not super used they come around the same time too
22 Apr 2020, 15:52 PM
#40
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2020, 09:54 AMVipper

or you can simply make the T-70 a bit cheaper.

Lowering the power level of unit should create less issues.


How much cheaper can you go?

T70 is 70f 260mp IIRC. The "problem" is the discrepancy between factions, on how much manpower they are paying to tech at different timings during the game, not the total teching cost for a normal build order.

At around 4 mins you start trading less effectively with Soviets. Flamer engineer is the most you will get out of the faction till the T70.
As you could see in the finals how players abuse this to bleed out soviets from mp and map control with excellent use of FHT.

We had this same discussion in the past. I think i did the tech cost for all factions except OH but i could do so as well.
Getting T2 + AT nades + Medics + T3 is not a mp effective way to pump out a light vehicle.

Compare that to P2 timing or what most people did during the tournament with Prostruppen play.
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LimaOscarMike: My laptop can't even run COH3. Should I get them on my Series X or is it dead yet?
Last Saturday, 05:10 AM
Rosbone: One of my last major gripes about Coh3. Price is still too high I feel for growth. But progress is always good.
Last Saturday, 04:43 AM
Rosbone: I am not 100% sure but I think Relic actually fixed up the skirmish menus a little last patch. If so, thank you and keep it coming.
Last Saturday, 04:39 AM
Osinyagov: Suddenly, coh2 is slowly dying, but you can play it, playerbase still big enough
09 Apr 2025, 17:00 PM
Osinyagov: Wow, i remember you from zansi and vali videos, good old memories
09 Apr 2025, 16:58 PM
Beinhard: o7 miss this game and zansi
09 Apr 2025, 14:09 PM
Lady Xenarra: @Willy Pete The lack of April Fools this year is odd lol
02 Apr 2025, 01:34 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus :*(
02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
dasheepeh: it was an honor guys :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:34 PM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
Rosbone: @dasheepeh I guess that means this site is officially dead :guyokay:
01 Apr 2025, 20:19 PM
dasheepeh: no comic sans font for april 1st this year?
01 Apr 2025, 19:56 PM
Willy Pete: @Lady Xenarra this you? https://i.imgflip.com/3e4thi.jpg
01 Apr 2025, 02:53 AM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
25 Mar 2025, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
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