ISU152 vs Elefant - harder to kill an ISU152

FF speed only 5.3!

how does it compare to jt and elefant

Idk but Jt rear armor also 110.

Why ISU152 is supposed to be unrewarding to flank?

But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.

Its actual AT performance is decent at best, although of course being able to switch in the first place is significantly better than nothing and does help its versatility.

That is because SU-85 is op.

SU-85 is probably superior to Elephant vs mediums, possibly vs Tiger once vetted.

That is because SU-85 is op.

SU-85 is probably superior to Elephant vs mediums...

Yes my in game experiencce tells me Elefant is crap and only useful in 2 maps - minsk pocket and redball!

SU85 is damn good, it is cheap, it can chase and retreat and have self spotting.

ISU152 is too hard to kill! For some reasons..

how does it compare to jt and elefant

The JT and Elefant kill medium tanks in about 18s (but 8,8s with a single faust thrown in) from the first shot and kill a 1040hp heavy in 26,4s from the first shot. They have pretty much double the AT DPM compared to the ISU-152, although this advantage does get neutered against 640hp vehicles because of the overkill damage that's required.

SU-85 is probably superior to Elephant vs mediums probably vs Tiger also.

The SU-85 needs about 45s to kill a Tiger I. The Elefant needs 26,4s to kill an IS-2.
At vet 3 the SU-85 needs about 27,4s while the Elefant needs 15s.

The Elefant has far superior DPM, although it mostly loses the advantage against 640hp vehicles because it needs to deal significant overkill damage and needs a third shot to deal the last 40 damage. But as I've said, in case both are supported by infantry who can deal even a single snare worth of damage, the Elefant can kill even medium vehicles almost twice as fast.

The JT and Elefant kill medium tanks in about 18s (but 8,8s with a single faust thrown in) from the first shot and kill a 1040hp heavy in 26,4s from the first shot. They have pretty much double the AT DPM compared to the ISU-152, although this advantage does get neutered against 640hp vehicles because of the overkill damage that's required.



The SU-85 needs about 45s to kill a Tiger I. The Elefant needs 26,4s to kill an IS-2.
At vet 3 the SU-85 needs about 27s while the Elefant needs 15s.

that is assuming all tanks stay stationary and pewpewpew each other!
elefant is too slow to chase and opens its rear armor to a side flank!

...
The SU-85 needs about 45s to kill a Tiger I. The Elefant needs 26,4s to kill an IS-2.
At vet 3 the SU-85 needs about 27,4s while the Elefant needs 15s.

The Elefant has far superior DPM, although it mostly loses the advantage against 640hp vehicles because it needs to deal significant overkill damage and needs a third shot to deal the last 40 damage. But as I've said, in case both are supported by infantry who can deal even a single snare worth of damage, the Elefant can kill even medium vehicles almost twice as fast.

Comparing a vet 3 Elefant and vet 3 su-85 is rather misleading since the a Vet 3 Elehant is more like unicorn.

In addition the numbers are bit inflated due to the chance to miss for the Elefant and difficulty to truck targets when moving.

Isu is better purely because the HE outranges the ATGs

Yea. The ISU's power comes almost entirely from its HE round; that round is quite absurd.

The Ele can be obnoxious, especially on narrow "lane" maps, but it's still only a dedicated AT weapon. If you instead opt to focus on infantry and ATGs, it's not too hard to deal with, since it's a massive 720mp/245f/21pop unit that can do literally nothing to those units.

The ISU, however, doesn't have that downside. If you focus on tanks, like the STUG, Panther, etc. it can still (to some degree) deal with those, thanks to its strong front armor, and decent HP pool, mobility, and AP round. If you focus on infantry/ATGs, the ISU can deal with those exceptionally well, thanks to the HE round's massive AoE and range (it can out-range ATGs, as you said).

This is, of course, only considering the units themselves. As others have pointed out, the ISU docs are incredibly viable in a huge variety of maps, whereas the Ele only excels in the "Jaeger Armor Doc", which focuses almost entirely on AT and Recon, and offers nothing in terms of AI.

Additionally, when looking at docs to counter these vehicles, Sov is simply much better equipped. Ram + Offmap is a much better vehicle "deletion" system than anything OST has to offer. If the Stuka Dive Bomb had the ability to 1-shot the ISU, then things would be a fair bit different (although that would make SDB absurdly overpowered).

ISU152 rear armor could be lowered.

Jaeger armor, Guard ISU and Shock ISU commanders could be nerfed by swapping some of the high impact abilities they have.

Changing these units hp to 900 would help. These 2 units have been meta in high level teamgames for over 4 years now. Kinda boring choosing between these commanders everygame.
But the logic is: do I choose one of these commanders or risk losing the game because the other guy has a low skill super unit.

I didn’t say it’s better than the SU85, I said it’s an AT and AI unit and extremely reliable as AT due to its good pen and damage since vet 0.

You don't get an ISU152 to deal with armor, you get an SU-85 for that.

The ISU is ok regarding AT-performance, nothing more. It is certainly not ''extremely reliable''.

Just a solid nerf to all heavies rear armors to like 110 would satisfy me. KV-2, KV-1, KV-8 etc.

Comparing a vet 3 Elefant and vet 3 su-85 is rather misleading since the a Vet 3 Elehant is more like unicorn.

Please, vipper, don't embarrass yourself

About stall 2v2 meta both offmaps should be deleted that's it

ISU152 is extremely capable vs armour with AP rounds. It’s both AI and AT.

Its significantly WORSE then single SU-85.
"extremely capable" isn't a word to describe its AT capability.
More like "supplemental".

Yea. The ISU's power comes almost entirely from its HE round; that round is quite absurd.

How do you still think its absurd? The claims of 1-shotting full health squads were debunked. It rarely even 2 shots squads by itself

There's a reason its reload is so long, and there's a reason switching shells takes almost 3 times as long as the Sherman

I can totally accept that Mechanized support is OP, its simply got too much good stuff. ISU itself is totally fine imo

Some people seem to forget that the more poplar isu152 commander has the mark target option which increases the 240 damage to slightly above 320 with teh 35% damage boost - out of this stat we have a sweet 2 shot and a rather low time to kill vs medium tanks at 640 hp or a 960 hp panther all those vehicles might get buttoned if they are out of positions and guards are near by, surely the isu152 isn't amazing vs the heaviest tanks but with its 70 range and 240 damage compared to the su85 it is quite capable of fighting against armor.
It surely isn't amazing but it doesn't need to be as it has really good anti infantry capabilities while elefants or jts are useless on their own and need some tank or a lot of dedicated anti infantry firepower to stand on their own and don't get overrun by infantry or atguns.

It does a good enough job at keeping axis armor at bay while simultaneously negating infantry.

Do you know what simultaneously means? Isu has to swap shells and it takes 10 seconds or so iirc. It can fight tanks and it can fight infantry but it most certainly can't do both simultaneously.

Do you know what simultaneously means? Isu has to swap shells and it takes 10 seconds or so iirc. It can fight tanks and it can fight infantry but it most certainly can't do both simultaneously.

I wanna say its 14 seconds. 10 seconds is the average time between shots (reload is 9-11 seconds iirc)

Switch time is 11 seconds, just checked in game

Elefant has stun target too? That is a finishing move! Lets not ignore that. Plus every AT bounces on elefant's front tiger even the Jackson and M1 57mm AT Guns AP rounds too!

Well I would certainly like more Ele doctrines that weren't just Jaeger and me bunker spamming for 30 minutes. Granted that game featured one of the worst sniper wait-outs I have ever done in COH2 and 1. StuGs

Elefant has stun target too? That is a finishing move! Lets not ignore that. Plus every AT bounces on elefant's front tiger even the Jackson and M1 57mm AT Guns AP rounds too!

It's 400 armor. Jackson will punch through 55% of the time at 60 range. M1 has such a high fire rate that even 32.5% pen chance(base round) shots will force an Ele away quickly.

It's supposed to be a hard to kill super heavy TD that can stomp on regular TDs.