ISU152 vs Elefant - harder to kill an ISU152

So can we reduce its armor to 110? Yes? No!?

Yes, if ISU is shot from behind it should be rewarded with penetration. Its range means that it should not be threatened by rear shots anyway. Rear armour of tanks was usually considered extra weight that makes suspension, gearbox, etc. wear faster so the less armour the less maintenance, or larger gun, or more ammo, or sth.

I don't see a problem with rear armour reduction for ISU152.

The shell switch time doesnt hamper its ability to fight at all, you have more then enough tools to make sure its not threatened during that time. Guards can 1 click slow, cons threaten snares, su85/at gun can ward off any tank dive before the shell is active.

Isn't it like 90mu tho? That's not unreasonable for a skill shot of that price tag tbh

it could have a rice reduction to 60 (?) but say it "can not penetrate shit" is rather inaccurate.

Your clip is on double speed, and it's 2x FF vs a JT and raketten.

All three FF are visible for the first three seconds of the clip. The clip is on double speed, but if you watch the timer at the top, the time from when the salvage FF is first hit to when it becomes salvage is about seven seconds. It's 3-4 seconds in the video.

Do you have a point, other than to imply that I'm trying to be misleading for some unknown reason, and to demonstrate your prowess in incorrectly counting to three?

Yes, if ISU is shot from behind it should be rewarded with penetration. Its range means that it should not be threatened by rear shots anyway. Rear armour of tanks was usually considered extra weight that makes suspension, gearbox, etc. wear faster so the less armour the less maintenance, or larger gun, or more ammo, or sth.

I don't see a problem with rear armour reduction for ISU152.

I agree, but think this should go for IS2, ISU, KV (all), KT, Tiger, Panther, Brumbar, Pershing, etc. You could look at it as a reward for flanking or punishment for being flanked. IRL, even tanks like the Tiger had 125mm armor in the front and only 25mm in the back.

It is dependant on context of the factions available

brits and USF have the hardest time killing an elefant, yet Soviets can counter one even non-doc very easy with katy to wipe support and single penal to force one off.

Ost and OKW both have tools with rocket arty and panther, it is just expensive. But in teamgames this is not an issue.

it could have a rice reduction to 60 (?) but say it "can not penetrate shit" is rather inaccurate.

It certainly shouldn't have a price reduction. Don't forget it retains it's AOE and peirces world objects. It's a skill shot, a good one, but it's price reflects its performance. Lowering the cost also has a compound effect of making other abilities more accessible.

This is one of the units that nerfimg its performance could actually make more unbearable. It's price warrants it's power and its power warrants its price. Nerf the power and reduce the price and its either not going to ever be used or be more cost effecient and easier to combine with other units. Reduce its AT and price, now you are fighting an isu that's still going to nuke your infantry but the su85 who has better AT than the live isu could ever dream of is now supporting it sooner. Combined as ain't gunna help and it's got a heap more health as a combination.
Or an extra t34 up sooner ect ect.

Mark target in this commander is problematic (and greatly overshadows the other isu commander) so I'd start with changing that. The isu is good, but expensive. Flexible, but micro intensive. The unit itself I'd argue is balanced, but the commander composition makes it above and beyond what it should be (with a heavy muni cost, but still)

It is dependant on context of the factions available

brits and USF have the hardest time killing an elefant, yet Soviets can counter one even non-doc very easy with katy to wipe support and single penal to force one off.

I would say it's not the entire truth. FF for example has tulip rockets that stun and blind the Elefant and always pen. USF on the other hand has mobile turreted TDs with HVAP rounds vet1 so this helps too. For non-doc soviets the best you can do is bleed manpower with infantry/ATG or zerg bunch of T34 hoping that you can park them behind ele long enough to destroy it. SOV is the only allied faction that can't really use it's TD in direct fight with the Elefant.

It's 400 armor. Jackson will punch through 55% of the time at 60 range. M1 has such a high fire rate that even 32.5% pen chance(base round) shots will force an Ele away quickly.

It's supposed to be a hard to kill super heavy TD that can stomp on regular TDs.

Since I mentioned AP rounds so I believe that you must have suggested the pen chances of the same right? So isn't it funny like a paper armored Jacskon costs 145 fuel has 1/2 chance of penetrating when I invested ammo in its AP rounds! Whereas Elefant just needs to spot the Jackson either through scope or scout planes that doctrine has. Both of the AT options have 60 range giving 10 profit to Elefant and M1 at AT rounds has 32.5% chances of penetrating which I believe it gets after vet 1 and its reload speed increases in vet 2 or 3 iirc. So yeah you leave no options with an entire faction to counter the Ele! Good job relic.


Whats more funny is that the other day I had my vet 1 ISU bounce an AT round on a vet 2 Pz 4,you could have guessed my reaction.

It is dependant on context of the factions available

brits and USF have the hardest time killing an elefant, yet Soviets can counter one even non-doc very easy with katy to wipe support and single penal to force one off.

Ost and OKW both have tools with rocket arty and panther, it is just expensive. But in teamgames this is not an issue.

brits can build a non doc better pak 43, it eats up elephant for breakfast

Flexible, but micro intensive.

The isu is not micro intensive in the slightest.

Flexible, but micro intensive.

The isu is not micro intensive in the slightest.

If you want it to be a multirole unit it is. Target prioritization is micro. Compare to say the elefant/JT where you set it on tanks only and keep it in range where they will deal damage every few seconds. The isu at least has shell swap and picking targets (and obviously shells) for maximum impact. I'd say it has more micro than any other casemate unit in the game except say the hetzer.

If you want it to be a multirole unit it is. Target prioritization is micro. Compare to say the elefant/JT where you set it on tanks only and keep it in range where they will deal damage every few seconds. The isu at least has shell swap and picking targets (and obviously shells) for maximum impact. I'd say it has more micro than any other casemate unit in the game except say the hetzer.

It is micro sure, but it lacks any semblance of intensity.