Why does ISU152 have so much speed and rear armor?
ISU152
1040 HP
340/155
Speed 4.5 - 5.4
Target size 26
Elefant
1040 HP
400/110
Speed 3.3 - 4
Target size 26
PIV near penetration is 125!
While Allies med tanks near pen are 120-140!
ISU152 vs Elefant - harder to kill an ISU152
16 Apr 2020, 09:53 AM
#1
Posts: 1794
16 Apr 2020, 10:53 AM
#2
Posts: 570 | Subs: 1
Isu is better purely because the HE outranges the ATGs
16 Apr 2020, 11:02 AM
#3
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
16 Apr 2020, 11:29 AM
#4
Posts: 372
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
16 Apr 2020, 12:55 PM
#5
Posts: 1794
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
Spotting scopes already nerf.
As OP doctrines can get, we should examine the units first. And ISU152 has too much armor/speed that makes Ost unable to counter as well as Elefant gets countered!
Every Allies Shermans Cromwells and T34 can rush in and bam 160x160x160 against a helpless Elefant!
16 Apr 2020, 13:14 PM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Certain vehicles should have their rear armored lowered while other should have their rear armored increased.
ISU fall under the first category.
ISU fall under the first category.
16 Apr 2020, 13:35 PM
#7
Posts: 306
i think isu armor should be lowered to be honest (at least rear), kind of stupid for a p4 to bounce rear, front armor could be looked at too, since panther seems quite inconsistent vs it, and its kind of the only counter wher has (exept ele)
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16 Apr 2020, 13:38 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Jäger armour should lose spotting scopes and get a vehicle detection ability like the soviets get on Shock Motor.
ISU should go down to 880 health, Mechanized Support should lose mark target for repair stations and IL2 nukes for IL2 Cluster bombs. Shock Motor should lose the IL2 nukes for IL2 anti infantry loiter.
ISU should go down to 880 health, Mechanized Support should lose mark target for repair stations and IL2 nukes for IL2 Cluster bombs. Shock Motor should lose the IL2 nukes for IL2 anti infantry loiter.
16 Apr 2020, 13:39 PM
#9
Posts: 306
Strange poll.
ISU is cancer especially because it comes in OP doctrines that have too much good stuff. ISU+ Mark Target+ Guards+ IL2+Camo AT guns is just insane.
Elefant is cancerous too because spotting scopes should have never been combined with it. Then again Elefant is your only hope to counter ISU on narrow maps like Minsk for example.
IMO both ISU doctrines and Jäger armour should get nerfed. It would be the best way to make 2v2+ instantly better.
the bombs are kind of stupid in both commanders, they stop howitzer play, and heavies get countered by isu or ele ( since you need paks with the heavis in the isu matchup). Leaving players with the only choice to pick ele to counter isu and vice verso (since bombs + ram seems one of the best ways to kill ele) leaving a very stall 2vs2 meta
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16 Apr 2020, 15:27 PM
#10
Posts: 1958
This is kind of a weird poll, considering how one is mostly just AI and the other is AT. I don't get what the fascination some people have with rear armor. Either of them usually are lost if they get flanked. I did vote (ISU seems like it has more of an impact on the game) but it still seams like a weird poll. I do agree that Ele or JT versus ISU seems pretty stale.
Ele versus JT would be a more interesting poll. JT seems to have kept more of it's relevance than the Ele. The HE barrage on weapons teams seems okay.
Ele versus JT would be a more interesting poll. JT seems to have kept more of it's relevance than the Ele. The HE barrage on weapons teams seems okay.
16 Apr 2020, 15:50 PM
#11
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
This is kind of a weird poll, considering how one is mostly just AI and the other is AT.
ISU152 is extremely capable vs armour with AP rounds. It’s both AI and AT.
16 Apr 2020, 16:19 PM
#12
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
ISU152 is extremely capable vs armour with AP rounds. It’s both AI and AT.
It has 260/230/200 pen, which is only enough to reliably penetrate medium tanks (even if it has deflection damage). And it deals 240 damage rather than 300. While this certainly isn't bad, it is not at all comparable to the Elefant (and Jagdtiger) with enough far range pen for a guaranteed penetration on any tank in the game and a significantly lower TTK against most vehicles. Not to mention a roughly 20% slower reload and worse gun traverse. It's good enough at AT, but calling it extremely capable (at AT) is a gross overstatement.
16 Apr 2020, 16:23 PM
#13
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
It has 260/230/200 pen, which is only enough to reliably penetrate medium tanks (even if it has deflection damage). And it deals 240 damage rather than 300. While this certainly isn't bad, it is not at all comparable to the Elefant (and Jagdtiger)
That’s not a fair comparison. I’m comparing it to the Soviet faction’s other TD, the SU85, which it has more penetration and damage than. It’s extremely reliable as a Heavy TD for the Soviet faction.
16 Apr 2020, 16:28 PM
#14
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
That’s not a fair comparison. I’m comparing it to the Soviet faction’s other TD, the SU85, which it has more penetration and damage than. It’s extremely reliable as a Heavy TD for the Soviet faction.
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
Its actual AT performance is decent at best, although of course being able to switch in the first place is significantly better than nothing and does help its versatility.
16 Apr 2020, 16:31 PM
#15
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
I didn’t say it’s better than the SU85, I said it’s an AT and AI unit and extremely reliable as AT due to its good pen and damage since vet 0.
16 Apr 2020, 16:33 PM
#16
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I didn’t say it’s better than the SU85, I said it’s an AT and AI unit and extremely reliable as AT due to its good pen and damage since vet 0.
Except that it isn't extremely reliable against anything bigger than a medium tank, as I've already told you. It has relatively low long range penetration (which does not increase with vet) and an extremely long reload on top of having slow gun traverse.
16 Apr 2020, 16:33 PM
#17
Posts: 40 | Subs: 1
It does a good enough job at keeping axis armor at bay while simultaneously negating infantry.
16 Apr 2020, 16:41 PM
#18
Posts: 1958
Except that it isn't extremely reliable against anything bigger than a medium tank, as I've already told you. It has mediocre long range penetration and an extremely long reload on top of having slow gun traverse.
This sums up the ISU's AT. Your first statement about the gross overstatement was spot on. I've not seen any replays where good Soviet players use it primarily on AT. Also, the long switch time from HE to AT means that it's going to be a spectator for the first part of any tank battle.
16 Apr 2020, 16:45 PM
#19
Posts: 1794
ISU152 is very hard to kill! That is the problem. You can kill an elefant with double t34.
Rear armor needs a nerf! Pronto!
Rear armor needs a nerf! Pronto!
16 Apr 2020, 16:45 PM
#20
Posts: 4474
how does it compare to jt and elefant
But it's worse at AT than the SU-85. Its TTK against both medium vehicles (at vet 0 17s for the SU-85 vs 20,5s for the ISU-152 against an Ostheer P4, counted from the first shot and disregarding accuracy) and against heavies (45,2s vs 51,25s against a Tiger I) is longer and the SU-85 gets even better with veterancy.
Its actual AT performance is decent at best, although of course being able to switch in the first place is significantly better than nothing and does help its versatility.
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Osinyagov: Suddenly, coh2 is slowly dying, but you can play it, playerbase still big enough
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02 Apr 2025, 00:16 AM
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01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
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Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
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Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
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Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
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24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
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OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
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OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. 
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
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