Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

Ohh boi, I have to pick up a shovel and clear all this bullshit now, so lets go!


Initially, slot weapons had 0.25 accuracy modifier on them, 300% brought them up to 100%.
They got LMG and 0.25 accuracy was changed to 0.5 accuracy out of cover and 0.75 accuracy in cover, the LMG costs 75% of gren LMG, so overall DPS of the squad skyrocketed due to the change as
1) They no longer need to rely on radnom weapon drops as they have a reliable upgrade they can get on all of the squads.
2) Their DPS out of cover with slot weapons was increased by 100% of the old value, their DPS in cover was decreased by 25%, but point 1) makes it great BUFF thanks to reliability of upgrade, so no, its not a major nerf, addition of LMG and 100% DPS increase with it out of cover is a MAJOR BUFF.


Because they offered amazing map control in early game and it was impossible to drive them off the field with any mainline inf once 251 rolled out to support them, you would win all of the engagements due to attrition and staying power that combo offered to the point when they had to be nerfed to keep them in check.
You've mentioned nerfs, but completely disregarded why these nerfs occured.


This is first accuracy and cover modifier change:


This is 2nd:


Unless I'm somehow reading this wrong, its almost impossible for osttruppen to miss anything in cover with Kars and at worst case, they have little under 50% accuracy out of cover.
That's anything but low.

Their damage and therefore DPS is low, their accuracy is among the highest in game out of cover and guaranteed hit on anything in cover.

It is a lot of text that just blurs the picture. Osttruppen are really bad at everything apart from being diposable snare units and much needed in ost case recrew units. Apart from that their performance is just a joke and upgrading them with mgs is just a terrible idea to spend munitions (unless you are winning anyway).

The patch you are reffering to imo was a wrong approach. They should have increased their cost to make them less spammable but give them some more punch and better veterancy scaling.

Right now they can initially overwhelm a bit for a minute or two, but later they just become a problem as all the manpower you spent on them means you have fewer sensible infantry units on the field, and they will make you most likely lose the infantry war.

One way or another it is by far the worst in game mailine infantry, costing only slightly less than cons or grens. All the modifiers and stats you are quoting mean literally nothing here. Vippler is simply more correct - no matter how you twist it, they are just rubbish and useful only because of other 4 men ost squads unable to recrew stuff effectively (plus the fact that ost, for example, paks are crewed by only 4 men)

As far as I know Osttruppen have a permanent x0.5 accuracy modifier for all their weapons, but gain a x3.0 accuracy modifier in cover for just their Kars. This means their Kars have 150% accuracy in cover (about the same dps as Grens squadwise) and their LMG has 50% accuracy in cover.

I tested it a single time some time ago, the LMG performs about the same in and out of cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsOOdDuRlh4

I personally find the LMG lackluster for requiring T4 tech, but the upcoming -2mp reinforce cost could help a bit. Would like to see their LMG have 75% accuracy in cover though.

As far as I know Osttruppen have a permanent x0.5 accuracy modifier for all their weapons, but gain a x3.0 accuracy modifier in cover for just their Kars. This means their Kars have 150% accuracy in cover (about the same dps as Grens squadwise) and their LMG has 50% accuracy in cover.

I tested it a single time some time ago, the LMG performs about the same in and out of cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsOOdDuRlh4

I personally find the LMG lackluster for requiring T4 tech, but the upcoming -2mp reinforce cost could help a bit. Would like to see their LMG have 75% accuracy in cover though.

The patch notes are a bit vague about this, it indicates that weapon should perform 50% out of cover and in cover 75%:
"Cover bonus for slot items from 300% to -25%."

and I could find anything helpful in the editor either other then ostruppen_cover_bonus that seem to apply only to K98. It seem to me that your are probably right and the weapon has the same DPS in and out of cover which is close to your test results.

This is massive nerf from the 50% more DPS damage that they used to do (losing 100% DPS on these weapons). Keep in mind that they had with 2 weapon slots at that time.


The DPS in cover ratio between the Lmg and k98 every 5 units should be:
0.9/1.1/1.4/1.6/1.9/2.2/2.6/2.9
from
2.6/3.3/4.1/4.9/5.7/6.6/7.7/8.6!

As far as I know Osttruppen have a permanent x0.5 accuracy modifier for all their weapons, but gain a x3.0 accuracy modifier in cover for just their Kars. This means their Kars have 150% accuracy in cover (about the same dps as Grens squadwise) and their LMG has 50% accuracy in cover.

I tested it a single time some time ago, the LMG performs about the same in and out of cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsOOdDuRlh4

I personally find the LMG lackluster for requiring T4 tech, but the upcoming -2mp reinforce cost could help a bit. Would like to see their LMG have 75% accuracy in cover though.

This is correct. The LMG has exactly the same performance in and out of cover, as the x3 accuracy bonus applies only to their standard Kar98.

It's interesting to rembember that their x0.5 accuracy modifier applies to all weapons they might pick up. If you want to pick up a dropped Panzerschreck/Bazooka/Piat with them to make them into a make-shift AT squad, then you're better off using Pioneers for that.

Reminder that the Osstruppen LMG was not granted and it was only a 20% chance for a squad to spawn with them.

Reminder that the Osstruppen LMG was not granted and it was only a 20% chance for a squad to spawn with them.

That's still the case with Osttruppen Reserves.

If just having 6 man squads is so beneficial to having 4 man squads, Osttupppen would be the dominating meta.

That is correct, hence why I am fully for buffing the allied factions by reducing their squad size to 4, and nerfing the axis factions by increasing their squad sizes to 6.

That's still the case with Osttruppen Reserves.

I word it badly.

What i'm saying is that you would mostly never ever get an LMG unless you were playing Mobile Def and extremely lucky.

Random vet or random weapons is still bad.

The change to Osstruppen is at the end of the days "bad" in the same way that reducing weapon slots on Conscripts was done because they could pick up weapons through a specific UKF commander.

That is correct, hence why I am fully for buffing the allied factions by reducing their squad size to 4, and nerfing the axis factions by increasing their squad sizes to 6.

You missed the point like old IS-2 missed infantry.

- Pak Howitzer still in need for nerf

- Scott still retarded cancer unit, either make it 320 HP or remove smoke. It's WAY too hard to kill this thing.

- Airborne Combat group still too cheap. It's crazy how many infantry units USF can field if they go double officer + combat group drop. It's like playing vs two armies at once when you consider that every one of these USF units is better than their Axis counterparts. (Pak Howi >>> Leig, mortar; USF Paratroopers >>> any infantry Axis can field in early game; Riflemen and officers>>> Volks/Grens)

- USF butterfly bombs still too cheap and spamable.

- Soviet late-game will be even more OP than before because of nerfed Tiger. Meanwhile, Soviets can rely on ISU and now buffed KV2. IS2 is going to remain strong too.

- Zis barrage should be slightly more expensive.

- WC51 still too much DPS and too cheap.

- UKF still no decent indirect. The changes will not fix them.

Overall I think Allies are going to be even more OP if the patch goes through as it is. There needs to be some nerfs to USF and Soviets, they will remain way better than UKF and Ost. They will also be slightly stronger than OKW and so some small nerfs to their overall strength would be fine.

- Pak Howitzer still in need for nerf

- Scott still retarded cancer unit, either make it 320 HP or remove smoke. It's WAY too hard to kill this thing.

- Airborne Combat group still too cheap. It's crazy how many infantry units USF can field if they go double officer + combat group drop. It's like playing vs two armies at once when you consider that every one of these USF units is better than their Axis counterparts. (Pak Howi >>> Leig, mortar; USF Paratroopers >>> any infantry Axis can field in early game; Riflemen and officers>>> Volks/Grens)

- USF butterfly bombs still too cheap and spamable.

- Soviet late-game will be even more OP than before because of nerfed Tiger. Meanwhile, Soviets can rely on ISU and now buffed KV2. IS2 is going to remain strong too.

- Zis barrage should be slightly more expensive.

- WC51 still too much DPS and too cheap.

- UKF still no decent indirect. The changes will not fix them.

Overall I think Allies are going to be even more OP if the patch goes through as it is. There needs to be some nerfs to USF and Soviets, they will remain way better than UKF and Ost. They will also be slightly stronger than OKW and so some small nerfs to their overall strength would be fine.

So nothing changed...at all .. well done good job

If just having 6 man squads is so beneficial to having 4 man squads, Osttupppen would be the dominating meta.

What's hilarious is that Osttruppen have become extremely popular in 1v1 despite being trash in combat.

So uh

Please fix the british grenade abilities for this patch!!! They doesn't get the range nerf if suppressed.

As I remember normal miles-bombs and commando-grenade arn't effected by suppression!

Will they also fix the Axis 10.5 cm howitzer animation? Ever since the howitzer got the 'direct fire' ability the barrel doesn't elevate when they shoot regular howitser rounds.

Please fix the british grenade abilities for this patch!!! They doesn't get the range nerf if suppressed.

As I remember normal miles-bombs and commando-grenade arn't effected by suppression!

If the order to throw the grenade was given and the ability stated to cast before squad get suppressed then it will work normally, any attempt to throw grenade after suppressed will suffer range decrease as intended.

Will they also fix the Axis 10.5 cm howitzer animation? Ever since the howitzer got the 'direct fire' ability the barrel doesn't elevate when they shoot regular howitser rounds.

This. You're right, it doesn't angle upwards. Thought I was only one to notice.

If the order to throw the grenade was given and the ability stated to cast before squad get suppressed then it will work normally, any attempt to throw grenade after suppressed will suffer range decrease as intended.

Regardless, other grenade abilities reduce the range even if told to throw before suppression and this one should follow suit.

Regardless, other grenade abilities reduce the range even if told to throw before suppression and this one should follow suit.

+1

Regardless, other grenade abilities reduce the range even if told to throw before suppression and this one should follow suit.

Sure

Sure

yes