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Is the T70 OP?

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Doomlord52
3 Mar 2020, 18:53 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 17:57 PMSander93
Tellers deal 400 damage so they oneshot a T-70.


jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 18:14 PMelchino7
Tellers is the normal mine. You are thinking on Riegel mines which if IIRC do less damage than Tellers.


I had to test this to believe it, but you're both right. The Teller does 1-shot a T70, and the Riegel, which I was thinking of in my previous post, does slightly less damage (360-380?). I seem to have had the two confused for years. My assumption had always been that the doc-locked, LV-deployed, heavy anti-tank mine was more powerful.

The followup questions would then be:

Why does the tooltip call it the "Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine" if it does less damage, and why does it cost the same as the normal Teller?

/edit

This seems like a tool-tip issue. I can't find any description of the historical Riegel-43 being referred to as a "heavy" anti-tank mine, and it in fact weighs approximately the same as both the Tellermine 42, and only slightly more than the '43. The Riegel was also only about 75% as powerful as the Tellers.

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elchino7
3 Mar 2020, 19:02 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 18:53 PMDoomlord52




I had to test this to believe it, but you're both right. The Teller does 1-shot a T70, and the Riegel, which I was thinking of in my previous post, does slightly less damage (360-380?). I seem to have had the two confused for years. My assumption had always been that the doc-locked, LV-deployed, heavy anti-tank mine was more powerful.

The followup questions would then be:

Why does the tooltip call it the "Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine" if it does less damage, and why does it cost the same as the normal Teller?


Because engine damage =/= immobilise
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Doomlord52
3 Mar 2020, 19:14 PM
#23
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 19:02 PMelchino7
Because engine damage =/= immobilise


Well, that answers that. I guess I've had the wrong understanding for ages.

With that said, I am going to at least somewhat blame the tool-tips.

Loadout screen / in-game unselected commander tooltip:
"Allows the SdKfz 251 to lay Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine."

In-game selected commander tooltip:
"The half-track is able to lay the heavy Riegel 43 anti-tank mine, which causes heavy damage and can break tank treads."

In-game Riegel 43 ability button on the 251-HT:
"Allows the SdKfz 251 to lay Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine."


That's really inconsistent (immobilize mentioned only 1/3 times), and possibly misleading (doesn't cause heavy damage compared to the stock AT mine).

/edit

Easy fix would be to rename it the "Riegel 43 anti-tank mine", and to change the tool-tip (in all 3 places) to "Allows the SdKfz 251 to lay the Riegel 43 anti-tank mine, which can break tank treads."
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Clarity
3 Mar 2020, 21:14 PM
#24
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I don't see a single comment defending the T-70 in its current state and yet somehow there is more votes for no.
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Katitof
3 Mar 2020, 21:24 PM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 21:14 PMClarity
I don't see a single comment defending the T-70 in its current state and yet somehow there is more votes for no.

Because T-70 isn't the problem, ost is.
Also, posting anything in favor of allied unit summons one who sees everything as problematic and its better to avoid it.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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SquishyMuffin
3 Mar 2020, 21:50 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 21:14 PMClarity
I don't see a single comment defending the T-70 in its current state and yet somehow there is more votes for no.


Seems to be a subset of people who think it needs tweaking rather than nerfing (though again the tweaks are soft nerfs based on suggestions) or prefer to phrase it as "Sort of". But that's what happens when you have a binary, vague, ill-informed referendum *cough*

In addition to acknowledging its original opposite faction OST being relatively weak to it.
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blvckdream
3 Mar 2020, 23:15 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 18:53 PMDoomlord52

Why does the tooltip call it the "Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine" if it does less damage, and why does it cost the same as the normal Teller?



Because that's what the Riegel AT mine is best at countering. Medium and Heavy tanks. Teller only does engine damage but Riegel immobilizes the vehicle until repaired. Which is usually the death sentence for enemy tanks because you will have plenty of time to finish them off with whatever source of AT you have. Teller is better vs light vehicles like T70 because they will be OHK and immobilization becomes meaningless.
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SkysTheLimit
3 Mar 2020, 23:20 PM
#28
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If t70 gets nerfed it needs to not be killed in 1-shot by a teller

I think tellers shouldn't one-shot period, but seems like that's here to stay
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T.R. Stormjäger
4 Mar 2020, 00:09 AM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 23:20 PMSkysTheLimit
If t70 gets nerfed it needs to not be killed in 1-shot by a teller

I think tellers shouldn't one-shot period, but seems like that's here to stay


Then Puma should be stock in T2.



jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 21:24 PMKatitof
Because T-70 isn't the problem, ost is.


BGHQ OKW is also the problem. Basically any axis build without the Puma or a lucky teller is the problem.
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distrofio
4 Mar 2020, 00:42 AM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 23:20 PMSkysTheLimit
If t70 gets nerfed it needs to not be killed in 1-shot by a teller

I think tellers shouldn't one-shot period, but seems like that's here to stay

Why? Those things have nothing to do with each other.

You could suggest maybe to address both issues as such, as issues, one of SU and hte other from OST but if you remove 1-shot tellers to T70 the community will rant for the other LVs aswell.
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mrgame2
4 Mar 2020, 01:02 AM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Mar 2020, 21:24 PMKatitof

Because T-70 isn't the problem, ost is.
Also, posting anything in favor of allied unit summons one who sees everything as problematic and its better to avoid it.


You right mate. Those whinies are probably ost tiger stallers. Build a stug,ostwind or p4. Problem solved.

Besides t70 only have small phase in 1v1 top 50 players. Most of us are noob to micro it or play 1v1 well.

Try 4v4 and see if t70 is op. Any nerf will delete t70 from all game modes

Ost whiners tiger stallers..i tell ya..
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porkloin
4 Mar 2020, 02:18 AM
#32
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As mainly an OST player I think the t-70s lethality is a tad too high. I do think it should be a very strong vehicle, and like the current setup, but I think an unchecked t-70 should counter somewhere like 2-3 squads, not 4-5 especially since the counters are expensive and not even 100% counters.

E: id really like to see pio anti-tank rifles as my preferred solution. Something that can force it away from a decrewed PaK, or the middle of your base without having to go full 100 muni shreks.
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SkysTheLimit
4 Mar 2020, 02:47 AM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 00:09 AMT.R. Stormjäger


Then Puma should be stock in T2.


Why? 1-shotting isnt just about the t70

And if the teller left a t70 with 20hp and a dead engine would it really stop being useful? Literally anything that can penetrate armor can finish that off no problem

If 90 muni for a manual squad wipe was OP, I don't see how 50muni for a LV is fair either. To be clear I am happy that demos got changed

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 00:42 AMdistrofio

Why? Those things have nothing to do with each other.

You could suggest maybe to address both issues as such, as issues, one of SU and hte other from OST but if you remove 1-shot tellers to T70 the community will rant for the other LVs aswell.


T70 counter and T70 nerfs absolutely have something to do with each other

If you reduce the t70s mobility, its easier to counter with pak40, shrecks, since you have more time to line up shots. If its easier to counter with other things, you wouldn't need the teller to 1 shot it

As I literally just said, it seems like its here to stay. I can live with that, just voicing my opinion
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mrgame2
4 Mar 2020, 04:14 AM
#34
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Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 02:18 AMporkloin
As mainly an OST player I think the t-70s lethality is a tad too high. I do think it should be a very strong vehicle, and like the current setup, but I think an unchecked t-70 should counter somewhere like 2-3 squads, not 4-5 especially since the counters are expensive and not even 100% counters.

E: id really like to see pio anti-tank rifles as my preferred solution. Something that can force it away from a decrewed PaK, or the middle of your base without having to go full 100 muni shreks.


It is not. You sound like a typical ost tiger staller skipping t3 units.

Good news staller! Grens and pak40 is getting buff to help against t70. Puma is coming soon.

So plant some mines, harass with grens faust, git gud against t70 with so many options opened to the most progressive and laid out faction, called ost
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distrofio
4 Mar 2020, 04:23 AM
#35
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Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 02:47 AMSkysTheLimit


Why? 1-shotting isnt just about the t70

Then open a thread for it, you are just derailing with offtopic.

If i came up and say: "Boy from now on apples and peaches are the same" does not make it truth.

T70 is way too mobile, a mine is not a direct counter. He has just to step on one and that is a probability,
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porkloin
4 Mar 2020, 04:29 AM
#36
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Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 04:14 AMmrgame2


It is not. You sound like a typical ost tiger staller skipping t3 units.

Good news staller! Grens and pak40 is getting buff to help against t70. Puma is coming soon.

So plant some mines, harass with grens faust, git gud against t70 with so many options opened to the most progressive and laid out faction, called ost


Do you even play the game?

A t-70 running amok doesn't ruin tiger stalling, it finishes the game at t2. I'm not saying it's uncounterable. It's game ending if uncountered. If a stuart somehow manages to dance a PaK to death there's still some hope of coming back. If a t-70 dances a pak and kills it that's game over.
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mrgame2
4 Mar 2020, 04:49 AM
#37
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It is not hard to plant and lure t70 into teller mine in 1v1.

Besides most ost whiners are touching on non issue. Only few pro like luvnest can use t70 to its maximum output.

In fact t70 sucks in 2v2 and above. At least it shouldn't die to 1 mine, perhaps critical damage with 80 hp left is fair

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mrgame2
4 Mar 2020, 04:52 AM
#38
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Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 04:29 AMporkloin


Do you even play the game?

A t-70 running amok doesn't ruin tiger stalling, it finishes the game at t2. I'm not saying it's uncounterable. It's game ending if uncountered. If a stuart somehow manages to dance a PaK to death there's still some hope of coming back. If a t-70 dances a pak and kills it that's game over.


Don't make sense mate. T70 is later and will encounter p4 if you don't be staller.

Make grens to protect your pak, problem solved.

If you think ost is so easy game over. Play usf. See how weak rifles start at, and if you bleed too much, it is gg
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porkloin
4 Mar 2020, 05:06 AM
#39
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Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 04:52 AMmrgame2


Don't make sense mate. T70 is later and will encounter p4 if you don't be staller.


So you don't actually play the game.
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SkysTheLimit
4 Mar 2020, 06:03 AM
#40
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2020, 04:23 AMdistrofio

Then open a thread for it, you are just derailing with offtopic.


I specifically said if the t70 is getting nerfed they should change the 1 hit KO of the teller. Planting an early teller on a road is a common strategy for countering LVs like the t70. This thread is about the t70

PM a mod if you need help with the definition of offtopic. You picked a single line of my post, deleted the rest and said it was offtopic. Just wow

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