Indeed, nerf ostwind, so we can see more brummbar use!
Its the only way.
Are you being sarcastic or do you really think ostwind is OP?
Undeniable Easy Eight problem.
30 Jan 2020, 23:43 PM
#41
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedAre you being sarcastic or do you really think ostwind is OP?
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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30 Jan 2020, 23:54 PM
#42
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Are you being sarcastic or do you really think ostwind is OP?
THE ONLY WAY!
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
31 Jan 2020, 01:15 AM
#43
Posts: 2358
Man, how do people come up with such arguments like "ez8 it's in a bad doctrine" when it is clearly meant the other way around, the doctrine has a strong unit to carry it, like falls for okw luftwaffe, and we are not even discussing about nerfing the ez8 but to buff it to make it carry harder? For real?
I imagine this situation like going to a bank and say to the cashier, because I want money and you have a lot there, give me right now all you can into this bag, because i need it more than you (???
I imagine this situation like going to a bank and say to the cashier, because I want money and you have a lot there, give me right now all you can into this bag, because i need it more than you (???
31 Jan 2020, 01:18 AM
#44
Posts: 2358
31 Jan 2020, 04:09 AM
#45
Posts: 789
Add scopes Garand ability to the commander? Only way I see to get the rifle theme into a useful ability
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
31 Jan 2020, 08:49 AM
#46
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Here's the facts of the case. The Ez8 has the worst A.I performance out of all of the Sherman varients. The Ez 8 has worse A.I than the OKW P.4 while having more epxensive Pintle. It's also in a 'bad' doctrine. The reload is longer than other Shermans but the pen is much better. Sherman Ez8 seems to have better base pen than Sherman 76's stock AP rounds but not better than Hvap rounds. However, Ez8 does get one more AT shot worth of health.
Issue: Sherman Dozer upgrade + Jackson is around the same fuel cost but perform vastly superior to 2 ez8.
Anaylsis: Repo Rogue did a long analysis of shermans a while back and he condluded Sherman Dozer upgrade is probably the most superior sherman varient. The Role of the sherman, is ultimately, not to brawl with vehicles but rather to support infantry and Tank Destroyers. The Ez8 doesn't do either of those things well because it has more Pen, the same about of health as Sherman Dozer upgrade, but over all less DPM than a Sherman 76. Couple that with the doctrine the Ez8 is in, and it's clear why people might think the Ez8 is underperforming. It's non-meta and perhaps need some love. People are unwilling to buff it because they believe it will be an over all buff to USF instead of a diversity of gameplay option change.
Possible solutions: Tighten the main gun scatter vs infantry OR buff the hull MG a little.
Rework option: Clone the Comet without crew grenades for a true preimum medium expereince.
That's a really good analysis.
The problem with Ez8 is once the Panther is out it become difficult to use them and you're anyway forced into building a Jackson. At that moment their IA is so pathetic that you're ending on the backfoot vs infantry.
31 Jan 2020, 10:13 AM
#47
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
That's a really good analysis.
The problem with Ez8 is once the Panther is out it become difficult to use them and you're anyway forced into building a Jackson. At that moment their IA is so pathetic that you're ending on the backfoot vs infantry.
Riflemen are more than capable to deal with infatry. Else the infatry/TD combo would not be viable.
And no their AI is not "pathetic".
31 Jan 2020, 13:54 PM
#48
Posts: 647
because
1) panthers/heavies
all advanced medium will eventually end up with this major problem. they simply do not have the means to brawl with panthers which out-hp, out-range, out-armor and out-pen every t34-85, E8 and comet in the allied arsenal.
thats why allied TD are so relied upon, they can out-range and alpha strike a panther/heavies without beiing at risk of taking any damage, while using E8s will not only provide vet to panthers/heavies, they are also at risk of being dived if there isnt enough AT support nearby, which even Vet 3 BAR rifles will not be able to sufficiently support the E8s against panthers/heavies.
2) USF lack of non doctrinal arty(which brings us to crappy doctrine argument). i am not speaking for 1v1s but team games because i do not have experience in 1v1s. paks/raketen/infantry AT support will deter any diving strategies and AT gun wall creep will ultimately zone out E8s who does not have the frontal armor to resist multiple pak shots and must pull out of range in order to survive.
of course the USF player can do the same and cause a stalemate. but the hardest counter to AT gun walls and infantry support is rocket artillery, which axis factions have no problems getting regardless of whichever doctrine they choose as it is non doctrinal for them and will eventually bomb the hell out of USF player before continuing the AT gun crawl/panther or p4 push. in such cases, the E8 left alone will easily be destroyed by combined arms. And of course the USF player can call for allies to support him. but more often than not, rocket artillery may not be always available to support USF as his own allies will need to bomb their own opponents.
therefore, the simplest and most effective solution for USF is to pick jacksons+sherman combo which are both non-doctrinal, allowing USF to choose a doctrine that provides decent artillery (priest/calliope) and be able to punch back in the indirect fire game without stressing his own teammates.
1) panthers/heavies
all advanced medium will eventually end up with this major problem. they simply do not have the means to brawl with panthers which out-hp, out-range, out-armor and out-pen every t34-85, E8 and comet in the allied arsenal.
thats why allied TD are so relied upon, they can out-range and alpha strike a panther/heavies without beiing at risk of taking any damage, while using E8s will not only provide vet to panthers/heavies, they are also at risk of being dived if there isnt enough AT support nearby, which even Vet 3 BAR rifles will not be able to sufficiently support the E8s against panthers/heavies.
2) USF lack of non doctrinal arty(which brings us to crappy doctrine argument). i am not speaking for 1v1s but team games because i do not have experience in 1v1s. paks/raketen/infantry AT support will deter any diving strategies and AT gun wall creep will ultimately zone out E8s who does not have the frontal armor to resist multiple pak shots and must pull out of range in order to survive.
of course the USF player can do the same and cause a stalemate. but the hardest counter to AT gun walls and infantry support is rocket artillery, which axis factions have no problems getting regardless of whichever doctrine they choose as it is non doctrinal for them and will eventually bomb the hell out of USF player before continuing the AT gun crawl/panther or p4 push. in such cases, the E8 left alone will easily be destroyed by combined arms. And of course the USF player can call for allies to support him. but more often than not, rocket artillery may not be always available to support USF as his own allies will need to bomb their own opponents.
therefore, the simplest and most effective solution for USF is to pick jacksons+sherman combo which are both non-doctrinal, allowing USF to choose a doctrine that provides decent artillery (priest/calliope) and be able to punch back in the indirect fire game without stressing his own teammates.
31 Jan 2020, 14:42 PM
#49
Posts: 306
the easy 8 lacks a clear role, thats why its bad
why get such an expensive tank that gets hardcountered by pak spam, panthers jp4 and such, when you can get a sherman that gets countered the same way, but at least is able to kill infantry,
this tank lacks the pen to kill heavier threats, while also having not a good AI performace, trading it all for a little bit more health and more armor, which leaves it to its only role, to be able to somewhat slug it out with p4.
it certainly needs an anti inf buff or toggable HVAP shells to make it viable against panthers
why get such an expensive tank that gets hardcountered by pak spam, panthers jp4 and such, when you can get a sherman that gets countered the same way, but at least is able to kill infantry,
this tank lacks the pen to kill heavier threats, while also having not a good AI performace, trading it all for a little bit more health and more armor, which leaves it to its only role, to be able to somewhat slug it out with p4.
it certainly needs an anti inf buff or toggable HVAP shells to make it viable against panthers
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31 Jan 2020, 14:51 PM
#50
Posts: 5279
If memory serves me the E8 is omt of 3 usf units that are capable of bouncing a pak shot... Also again, if memory serves their pen is quite high end for an allied medium tank. It's neither squishy nor weak against tanks. It's simply not a Jackson so it SEEMS weak against tanks (it's not guaranteed to pen at 60 range) it's a brawler and one of the best at that.
#stalinwept
31 Jan 2020, 15:11 PM
#51
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Best aspect of the Ez8 is radio net. A trio of vet Ez8s can wreck shop, especially with 1.0 moving accuracy and 200 pen at short range.
31 Jan 2020, 16:24 PM
#52
Posts: 124
Here's the facts of the case. The Ez8 has the worst A.I performance out of all of the Sherman varients. The Ez 8 has worse A.I than the OKW P.4 while having more epxensive Pintle. It's also in a 'bad' doctrine. The reload is longer than other Shermans but the pen is much better. Sherman Ez8 seems to have better base pen than Sherman 76's stock AP rounds but not better than Hvap rounds. However, Ez8 does get one more AT shot worth of health.
Issue: Sherman Dozer upgrade + Jackson is around the same fuel cost but perform vastly superior to 2 ez8.
Anaylsis: Repo Rogue did a long analysis of shermans a while back and he condluded Sherman Dozer upgrade is probably the most superior sherman varient. The Role of the sherman, is ultimately, not to brawl with vehicles but rather to support infantry and Tank Destroyers. The Ez8 doesn't do either of those things well because it has more Pen, the same about of health as Sherman Dozer upgrade, but over all less DPM than a Sherman 76. Couple that with the doctrine the Ez8 is in, and it's clear why people might think the Ez8 is underperforming. It's non-meta and perhaps need some love. People are unwilling to buff it because they believe it will be an over all buff to USF instead of a diversity of gameplay option change.
Possible solutions: Tighten the main gun scatter vs infantry OR buff the hull MG a little.
Rework option: Clone the Comet without crew grenades for a true preimum medium expereince.
This post explain every aspects of eaasy eight.
31 Jan 2020, 16:25 PM
#53
Posts: 124
If memory serves me the E8 is omt of 3 usf units that are capable of bouncing a pak shot... Also again, if memory serves their pen is quite high end for an allied medium tank. It's neither squishy nor weak against tanks. It's simply not a Jackson so it SEEMS weak against tanks (it's not guaranteed to pen at 60 range) it's a brawler and one of the best at that.
Did you realy believe easy eight is one of the 'best' brawlers ?
31 Jan 2020, 17:36 PM
#54
Posts: 2358
If we nerf m36 you can beef up the E8 armor. Otherwise no.
31 Jan 2020, 17:45 PM
#55
Posts: 87
I think it just needs a tweak to it's veterancy in order to do it's brawler job. Maye replace it's Vet 2 weapon accuracy bonus with a second reload bonus, the way the old 76mm Sherman had before it got removed, for increased rate of fire on the main gun? Or maybe replace it with a penetration buff, to more reliably pen other mediums and heavies?
Something, something something, something.
There, done.
There, done.
31 Jan 2020, 17:47 PM
#56
Posts: 2358
Cobaltx105, again, the E8 is not that bad, it is being overshadowed by a much reliable, most secure investments that is M36.
You can try to use it sometimes and it does its job. Dont expect it to win a 1v1 vs an elephant thou
You can try to use it sometimes and it does its job. Dont expect it to win a 1v1 vs an elephant thou
31 Jan 2020, 18:02 PM
#57
Posts: 4474
u know what, i have time to waste so i will do some test about the bogus claim "worse ai than any Sherman ans p4" both stationary and moving
and with mg or not
ok im back
edit: done some test
the stationary ai is about the same , with a slight edge for the normal p4 (strange i though okw p4 had better scatter might have been rng)
with mgs they equalize but easy 8 is 1-0.5 second slower vs ai
the real test was p4 okw vs easy 8 MOVING
no contest , the easy 8 killed the whole squad while the p4 was about half done and still missing a lot of shoot
conclusion, no easy 8 is not the worse variant for AI for Sherman, standing still is on the same lvl as 76 Sherman , if u are asking "how i though 76 had faster reload" while that is true the 76 has 50% more scatter so it misses more removing the reload advantage
if the unit is moving then it's no contest the best ai medium tank in the game with almost 0 penalty on scatter instead of the normal 1.5
https://imgur.com/a/ElnWrk8
and with mg or not
ok im back
edit: done some test
the stationary ai is about the same , with a slight edge for the normal p4 (strange i though okw p4 had better scatter might have been rng)
with mgs they equalize but easy 8 is 1-0.5 second slower vs ai
the real test was p4 okw vs easy 8 MOVING
no contest , the easy 8 killed the whole squad while the p4 was about half done and still missing a lot of shoot
conclusion, no easy 8 is not the worse variant for AI for Sherman, standing still is on the same lvl as 76 Sherman , if u are asking "how i though 76 had faster reload" while that is true the 76 has 50% more scatter so it misses more removing the reload advantage
if the unit is moving then it's no contest the best ai medium tank in the game with almost 0 penalty on scatter instead of the normal 1.5
https://imgur.com/a/ElnWrk8
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
31 Jan 2020, 18:19 PM
#59
1 
Posts: 147
The Easy 8 BTFOs the Panzer IV AusJ, a tank that costs the same amount of fuel as it does. Making it any stronger is risky.
Easy 8s are rarely going to be as cost effective in teamgames where arty spam and tank destroyers dominate, and where finding those early one-on-one medium tank engagements is more challenging. But in game modes that are slightly more finely balanced (1v1, 2v2 at a push) they can perform very well.
I see it as a very good 2nd tank to build in those modes, so you can take advantage of your cheaper Sherman M4A3 window and then follow up with a Panzer IV killer. As a durable tank with a machine gun on it, it's often more versatile in this role than going Jackson as 2nd tank.
Easy 8s are rarely going to be as cost effective in teamgames where arty spam and tank destroyers dominate, and where finding those early one-on-one medium tank engagements is more challenging. But in game modes that are slightly more finely balanced (1v1, 2v2 at a push) they can perform very well.
I see it as a very good 2nd tank to build in those modes, so you can take advantage of your cheaper Sherman M4A3 window and then follow up with a Panzer IV killer. As a durable tank with a machine gun on it, it's often more versatile in this role than going Jackson as 2nd tank.
31 Jan 2020, 18:44 PM
#60
Posts: 211
u know what, i have time to waste so i will do some test about the bogus claim "worse ai than any Sherman ans p4" both stationary and moving
and with mg or not
ok im back
edit: done some test
the stationary ai is about the same , with a slight edge for the normal p4 (strange i though okw p4 had better scatter might have been rng)
with mgs they equalize but easy 8 is 1-0.5 second slower vs ai
the real test was p4 okw vs easy 8 MOVING
no contest , the easy 8 killed the whole squad while the p4 was about half done and still missing a lot of shoot
conclusion, no easy 8 is not the worse variant for AI for Sherman, standing still is on the same lvl as 76 Sherman , if u are asking "how i though 76 had faster reload" while that is true the 76 has 50% more scatter so it misses more removing the reload advantage
if the unit is moving then it's no contest the best ai medium tank in the game with almost 0 penalty on scatter instead of the normal 1.5
https://imgur.com/a/ElnWrk8
None of the images you provided tested with vet bonuses. I'm interested to see what happens then.
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