Profile of GachiGasm

Why do you ask how Ostheer is supposed to hold the line against USF and UKF without MG42 when Ostheer is designed to be played around the MG42?

Then ppl shouldn't expect ostheer to play with grenadiers. Thats the whole point. There is no reason, because investing into double MG42+double pio into T2 or call-ins+MG42 is just x100 more viable then bothething youself with T1. Considering that T1 is also delaying your teching. Sniper is the single reason to go T1. I'm not saying that grens shouldnt be supported by MG42, I'm saying that other options are just hands down better, even without support, and raw perfomance of unsupported grens is just laughably bad.

Grenadiers are 240 MP and rightfully lose most 1v1s to Riflemen and Infantry Sections because if they din't Ostheer would just instant win every game.

With MG42 as it is right now, yes. If power and impact of MG42 and grens would have been fairly spead out, then not.

Grenadiers aren't even really that much better than 4 man Infantry Sections and can also beat Riflemen on long-range so it's well balanced as it is.

Except Inf sections aside from STs and Ass.grens arent facing any close\mid range squads early on, and both volks and grens if they try to rush inf sections behind cover will be destoyed in seconds.

Volks do not beat Riflemen at any range unless max-range green cover fights. Same as Grenadiers. You would be surprised if you tested charging Riflemen against Volks. Riflemen can close in from a considerable distance and still win.

Volks can put enouth damage to force rifles to retreat after engagement, even if volks themself would have to retreat. As for grens it is uncomparably easier to over-run them, then volks.

EDIT: To reply to the gren disadvantage sentence.Grens cost 240 and their purpose is to hold the line

Please eleborate how you can hold the line against tommies\rifles, without HMG support (260MP) or having ratio 2to1(240MP+), early on. In case you ask, point is being you are froced to have x2 MP more of units in a one place in order to hold back x2MP less worth of units. Rifles\tommies cost you 280\270mp but you need 480mp worth of grens to force them back.

Vet3 grens with LMGs mow down all infantry when they are behind yellow or green cover.

And? Upped vet3 Rifles\Tommies also mow down inf, LMG vet 3 rifles mow down even faster.

On the other hand, OST has grens and pgrens. Grens are defensive and pgrens are offensive.

In which way PGs are offensive? Shocktroops or Mech.rifles are offensive, PGs are versatile, thats why they are good in first place.
Because they can adapt, they can either outdamage you in cover on mid range and then charge, or charge strate of the bat depending on the possitioning. They have all the tools to fight pretty much any kind of inf, be it long\mid\close range ones and they have enouth fire power to stay victorious if played right.

Grens on the other hand, even if played completly right and how they are intend to be played, still will most likely lose.

Mainline they have volks which beat rifles long range and struggle against tommies on any range (before the upg).

Yes, thats the point, more expensive rifles can lose to cheaper volks if played wrong or charged badly. More expensive Volks can lose to cheaper Cons, if they allow them to get close without beating. On the other hand Grens cant provide enouth of a DPS to realistically force away pushing rifles, even if its a piss poor push, the same way grens cant realistically get to the mid range to beat tommies.

Pretty much the only way grenadiers can somehow win engagement is if your enemy makes a very stupid mistakes.

And Vanilla volks can beat vannila Tommies at close range, point is being that you cant realistically get to the close range, if its not from sight blocking ambush.

That's why with OKW ...

And thats why soviets are generaly showing better results vs OKW, rather then ost showing against WFA (without utilizing the cheese like osttroopens, ass.grens, VSL) because match up vs OKW while being harder (in terms of inf vs inf play), it plays almost the same as vs Ost early on and doesnt contradicts with soviet faction design.

Ost on a at least semi competitive level forced to avoid intentional desing and either rely on fast tech into T2 with double MG42 (in teamgames mostly) or chose commanders which pretty much compete faction early game changers.

Btw is M1 provides full crew if its capured, or just 4 models? Cant remember.

Gotta slightly disagree with that on one thing. True, tommies become OP when they get their 5man squad upgrade. But as a 4man squad, they are the weakest infantry unit. Compare a 4man tommy squad to a gren squad on a stat basis and not only are they outclassed but borderline handicapped. So true, Tommies have the potential to mow down infantry, but this isn't until the late game, where axis players will have more tools to counter. Early game, tommies are at the disadvantage. Also no snare, and Grens have really good grenades and superior LMGs that don't require unlocks.

If we consider raw 1v1ning (and in early game its possible) against both grenadiers\volks grenadiers in cover, then 4 tommies are able to beat volks at long range\somewhat at mid range if both stay in green cover.

As for grens they will beat grens at long range again it green cover, but might lose at mid range.

You can test it out aswell with cheat commands mod. Ofcourse in real game such long firefights wont happen, but overall early on Tommies can be beaten mostly if you catch them or force them out of the possition, if they are already in their preferable possition, they are by no means weakest inf.

Its addressed by HMG42 being in T0, sniper in T1 and reinforcement HT in T2.
If you want to play ost, like they were OKW, you'd have to actually switch to OKW, sorry.

HMG42 cant cover whole map, aswell as sniper. UKF also have sniper and HMG, but guess what, this is chose units, they are not nessesry units. Try playing Ost without some of the key units and you will see that they are melting in seconds.

And even considering that, we see how it is frustrating to play against HMG and Ost snipers, because they are good, to glue togeather shit parts. Just like soviets.

Except soviets aren't shitty, they have their strengths and weakness and are painfully predictable, but they aren't shitty.

They are shitty, if your game depends on one or two key units to stay in the game, faction is objectively shit.

And neither is ost without osttruppen or VSL, but it will seem like it is if you ignore that faction is balanced around combined arms instead of mashing your forehead on "build gren" hotkey.

Neither soviets theoretically have to get T70. But it doesnt change the fact that it most cases its a must have unit.

At least once in a week we have a game, where one of the top players is using 251 in a way that makes it impossible to push grens of the field, people are pissing in awe during the stream, but afterwards Men in Black round them all up, do a flash and people proceed to REEE-ing about pure gren spam not being competitive answer to dual BAR rifles or 6 man dual bren tommies.....

Good for them. Ones a week top players lockdown bases with rifles\cons\volks\tommies. Ones a tournamet OKW might not be picked ones. What it proves in a bigger picture?