From an old Reddit post I saved:
Idk what this means in coding therms, but what it means for modders is that if CoH2 detects models in DATA\: that aren’t in the base game, it stops the game and shuts down CoH2 to prevent you from using a mod that adds new models.
This means that if you have modified SGA, which you somehow managed to get working in CoH2 it removes (or breaks) key assigned to this SGA by relic. In other words, your SGA wont pass as an original one.
I think there was something wrong with how the mod tools interacted with the steam workshop, and that’s why Relic made it so you can’t use mods that add new models?
Well hard to say really. Because on the one hand, yes mod tools might interact wrong. But I at the same time, it depens on how mod tools are made.
If we look at how workshop in lets say Arma3 or Men of War made, then we will see that it allows multiple file dowload and unpacking as a part of one workshop item.
Most realistic case, is that CoH2 modding was build from the get go with the idea that ppl will be restricted moding wise, because if we look at how vCoH modding is made, all mods are requare separate .exes for them in order to load all mod SGAs into the game.
To put it simple, I doubt its even possible to have mods like Blitzcrieg or Easter Front in CoH2 and having them launch using in game custom game.
But at the same time clintside skins and mods werent locked, this is main problem. And that relic arent allow community dev team to provide assets for them to just upload into the game.
So, after having few wet memories about the times where we had an ability to put custom assets into the game, I've decided to research this topic a bit. Not in depth, since i'm not a pro modder, but I have experience in 3D moddeling and how it works.
After looking at how things are made, I've found might be interesting for ppl to know how game works and to get undertanding behind all this model shenanigans. Also maybe if more ppl will undertand it, then we can call out for relic. But I'il speak about it in the end.
To not give anyone false hopes. No, its not possible to put any custom assets into the game. Mainly because there is no way to make proper SGA arhive, let alone edit existing ones.
What is SGA arhives and mod tools:
This is bassicaly game archive containing all the files game uses. With mod tools right now we are able only to edit low-level code of the game.
The only custom thing we can put in the game again are UI elements and UI code. Be it portraits, icons, ability icons and so on.
Adding custom images is done via image burner tool which effectively turn images into the format game will understand and pack them if need be. Format is called rgt.
Can we operate and get our hands on RGTs?
Yes we can. We effectively can get access to every single RGT texture and convert it to readable format, be it DDS\TGA\PNG\JPG. And we can turn it into the RGT back from these formats.
I belive relic officially released a templates textures for every single vehicle in the game, which are included with CoH2 Tools data, for ppl who want to create custom skins.
This means: we tecnically have working RGT converter, to make textures for CoH2
Fan fact: Data tools are also include inf model example with raw files. And its a rifleman model.
Why we are able to create custom vehicle skins but not inf skins
To put it simply, creation of SGAs containing custom vehicle textures are very predetermined. Before creating it with mod tools, we select every single vehicle skin pack has and then we pack them into SGA.
In other words, its just allowed by Relic to create custom skins. They specifically created pre-made parameters, which will put all the files in a correct folder, matching path vechile will use to find skin location.
Tecnically there is no difference, in the basics of how vehicle and inf textures works. Aside from the fact, that I belive inf dont have camo parameters.
Also it means that we cant have lets say SGA containing attrib files\custom UI code and vehicle skin in one mod. They are all separated due to how mod tools works. Thats why usually total overhaul mods are using skippack, wincondition and main mod files.
Now to interesting stuff
How CoH2 models work
Basically, using mod tools archive viewer we can open any SGA (but not edit it) and see what it contains.
And i'il drop eliw00d explanation of what they are for better understanding
.abp is Animator BluePrint
.rga is Relic Game Animation
.rgm is Relic Game Model
.rgo is Relic Game Object
.rgt is Relic Game Texture
Unfortunately, there is no way to export them to other formats.
I'il use soviets as an example:
IMPORTANT: most of the files can be edited via simple notepad++, editining their name\path\texuture usage\path to textures and so on. This means that, for excample, to create preexisting inf model which uses custom skin (without edits to the model itself) we dont need any 3D knowlage nor we dont need special programms to do so. All can be done in the text editor.
Can we get models to work in 3D programms?
Yes, we can. I was able to get obersoldaten model:
Using toold made for vCoH(!), they are still working with coh2, even preserving motion data and rig of the model (bassicaly all models parts are following model bones, and its called rig).
IMPORTANT: This means that coh2 model format and the way the game works isnt even different from the one used in vCoH. So
Can we get models from 3D programm into RGM back?
Good question. Probably yes, but I didnt test it, since I've spend hell of a lot time trying to find version of model importer, becase all the tools were posted on the relicnews site which is long gone. But judging by old eliw00d video:
It is possible, at least most likely. I dont know what method he used to put vCoH models to CoH2 and if it requred any edditing in 3D programms. He might aswell just drag and droped them and they worked. In any case, fast is its mostlikely will work.
So in conclusion what we have:
1) We HAVE working programm to create and edit textures.
2) We CAN look for and export files from game SGA.
3) We CAN create custom reskined inf models without even editing them in 3Ds max or blender.
4) We CAN get models working in 3D programms and edit them.
5) We most likely CAN export them back to the format game will undertand.
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1) We CANT modify the SGAs, and SGAs we can create are very limmited and ristricted to specific pre-made things.
En excample of how easy it would be
Lets say we want to create obersoldaten with different poopy skin, like this one I made in 5 mins for lulz:
Basicly what could have been done. In both ArtHighXP1.sga and ArtWestGerman.sga, we would need to duplicate folders related to Obersoldaten (2 folders in total) and call it lets say "OPsoldaten", then using notepad we just need to change path in files from Obersoldaten to OPsoldaten and pack SGA back. Thats it. Custom skined model is ready. Its that easy.
Now my words to relic
I mean, we have a lot of rumors regarding why it ability to add custom stuff was disabled. Some say due to the fact it might be exploited, some due to the fact that relic wanted to sell DLC, some say its LELIC.
But it really doesnt matter now, game is living off the community, creating content and spending their time.
I want to make it clear, I'm asking for proper mod tools. I'm asking for the ability and upgrade to workshop and how files work. What I'm asking for, allow community dev team to at least give YOU files YOU will put in YOUR arhives YOURSELF.
Its not hard, its not requared anything special, since you Relic are able to create skin SGAs, Map SGAs they are all working in the same way.
Objectively all is requared from you, Relic - have willingness to allow community to do it, without need of creating new tools and programms. Everything else can be done by the community, you just need to pack it into the game later on.
And hell, you went for upgrading your anti-cheat, creating x64 bit version, both tasts are MUCH harder then what we are asking for.
I would really like to ask @JohnT_RE what is the official relic statement about all of this, maybe they just disabled it and forgot about it later.
And I really want to ask the community to be at least a bit vocal about it, untill we will have some sort of an answer from relic. Because, they might indeed maybe its much more simplistic then we think and we just need to ask, but with understanding how all of this works.
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I've tried to make it as simple as possible, if I made any mistakes feel free to correct me and I'm sorry in advance if I made them.
From what I understood this isn't a simple option to turn from off to on. The issue is that all the tools (except the AE) are completely outdated and would require a hell of a lot of work to get working. Most of the original devs have moved on so it's likely nobody even knows how these tools were coded. It would be great if Relic could update them, but it's understandable if they won't because it'd be a big investment and they wouldn't get much back from it at this point.
Its undestandable that it might be not relevant to do it for public, but relic themselfs could edit their own SGA files which are containing skins\entity data and so on.
You guys really should just contact John and ask him if this is possible for dev team to just prepare at least custom textures for units and sent them to relic, and relic on their end could just pack them to SGA. Maybe even add a new SGA which will contain all the new stuff (this is possible). I doubt relic used the same Mod Tools to upgrade and edit game SGAs.
If there is ppl around capable of updating anti-cheat, I'm pretty sure they will be capable of packing SGA using Relic tools they used to make them.
Hell I also remember some guy who made realistic vCoH skins was fiddeling with CoH2 models back in the day
And inf textures are VERY easy to get, you even can export them properly. So tecnically all that Relic would requare to do is just copy-paste existing unit for what custom skin was made and just assign new material to them. Boom, you have new inf model.
Also on top of that, I belive coh2 works in a way that it allow to share models and assign them to game entities. In other words, you have grenadeirs models have lets officer cap, if you made some minor editing to the model file. Like you can see on one of the pictures, where grenadeirs use officer winter coat + helmet.
To my knowledge, people were already able to import models/animations/etc at one point, with or without dedicated tools. The functionality was just removed in a patch at some point.
Relic wouldn't even need to make any more tools, seemingly, they'd just need to re-enable an ability that already existed at one point
As far as I know, this was made possible due to Corsix's Mod studio and possibly due to the fact that at somepoint, coh2 archives worked differently. In other words, right now you cant make model into CoH2 not only because you cant edit archives and replace model, but because you cant make it into CoH2 format to begin with, because they are different from vCoH. I'm not sure here, but it might be the case. Because I dont think there are tools to even get existing coh2 models\animations exported from the game and used in any 3d programm.
Nothing else is really needed except Relic allowing model importing and editing as you can see here:
Everything else you just mentioned is possible otherwise.
Thats not the point. I know about this, but the point why was turned off because of possible abuse and data hacking? Well thats the most logical reason at least. What I was saying, Relic should at least allow community dev team to work with the models, allowing archive edditing for public isnt even nessesery to begin with if there is possability of hacking something.
Relic should just allow community to do all the work model vise and then just update archives themselfs and add thouse new models.
If it were up to me your paratroopers would also be droppable from the air just like the US Airborne.
And there would also be a lot more units, especially from the old game like the Hummel, M18 Hellcat, Jagdpanther and so forth.
Actually who knows, maybe its a possability, considering with new community manager we got some things moving, like updated anti-cheat and proper beta test version.
Its not like Relic will be requared to work on models, all they need to do is just generally allow them to be made (in at least ported from vCOH). They just need to provide tools for either 3Ds Max\Blender\Maya and agree to upload them later into the game build.
And as I said somewhere, its not like they need to allow moding for general public. At least allow community working on updates to bring new things and then just add it to the game.
Would have been cool to put this in Festung Armor or something. But alas, Relic doesn't want any more unit swaps between factions because of missing skins and voice lines etc. The Tiger swap was only possible because OKW happened to have some unused voice lines for it.
No swapping units between factions is literally the first bullet point about the suggestions on commanders.
KT is also not a doctrinal unit.
Thats why we gave soviets 50cal.
Tecnically the same unit, but different. KT could also be made into a variation, not a direct copy. Not to mention there was unreleased command KT, which could work. The same way OKW resieved command tiger, which is not direct copy of Ost Tiger.
Raid sections need to be tested and very carefully. Right now, they can be considered free bolstered inf section, which are easier to hit in cover, but at the same time they are always just as good out of cover + have access to same caches\trenches\sandbags + they again have weapon unlock without actually unlocking weapon racks. And on urban maps they allow UKF to skip grenades because they have mollies.
So you skip bolster, you skip nades, you skip weapon raks, you can capture points faster, you move faster, you have sprint. For the cost of not having a grenade and ability to have pyro\meds (but you still have 1 starting inf section + medics). This feels like an overkill.
I can see ppl using Sappers\Vekers\Bren early on untill 1 CP they go strate for 5 man Raidsection and then just rush for T3.