1) Soviet tech has received buffs
2) Stock Soviet units have received buffs
3) Soviet Commander got access to more doctrinal units
This is irrelevant, ostheer also got tech and core army buffs. Over-all picture of sov\ost relation pretty much remained the same.
Most soviet fillers were weak in comparison in 2013 and they are still weak in 2022, compared not only to Ostheer but all the other factions. Their saving was the fact that most of the call-ins were OP AF. Who cares about anything when you had 1CP shocktroops and 60 range one-shotting ISU
Even mentioned Partisans commander was overpowered, because of how easily you was able to pop them on retreat path and wipe. Sure it wasnt ok and should have been toned down, but balance team or who ever was behind changes, clearly never had any intentions of actually trying to fix this system where whole commanders are being carried by either combination of few abilities or few call-ins.
As I have posted earlier the problem has little to do with number of or the strength of "filler abilities" it has more to do with difference in power level of commanders.
What soviet power level of commanders comes from to begin with? Ok we, so basically say if commander doesn't have 120mm mortar\elite inf and some sort of armor call-in, its basically a useless commander for soviets, because abilities besides that are simply cant compensate for soviet design. |
You seem to be missing the design.
Ostheer where designed to really mostly on stock unit and less on doctrinal units.
Soviet where designed to have average stock unit and lots of good doctrinal units.
That designed faded over time (especially with community patches).
I know about that design, that knowledge is the reason why I am complaining. The most commander dependent faction, has by far the weakest filler abilities, which on paper are supposed to either improvement for your army or strong addition but in reality they are just a dead weight.
And opposite to this Ostheer with a strong core army and less commander dependence, benefiting almost twise as much. |
That is a misconception not all abilities should be of equal power...
Well idk, playing all factions, besides my hate towards soviets, I only find ostheer relief inf to be the ability you hardly even use.
And those abilities should be used to fill commander with powerful abilities like the ISU-152 for instance so that the sum of all abilities of commanders should be of around the same level.
This is possible solution, but the problem still remains that such filler abilities for soviets are honestly miles behind other faction fillers.
The is not very accurate:
Hit the dirt was merged with ppsh
Conscript repair kit was expanded to include penals
Assault guards got both AI and AT upgrade.
PMD mine and tank traps where merge into one ability and bunker where added
AI and AT partisan where merged into one ability
Out of all, the only good thing was the creation of advanced fortification. Others are slight improvements at best. I mean its no where near merges like reigel+mobile obs vehicle or flak with advanced fortifications.
For instance, if balance team thinks that repair kit should also benefit penals, why don't they think about giving something to penals with PPSH kit, making it more attractive for non cons builds.
Again, its pointless to discuss balance at this point, but yet, I am constantly having feeling that very little thought were put in soviets commanders and their abilities. It feels like, balance team just decided to give them around 5-6 meaningful commanders and left others for memes.
Ostheer despite having same crap load of commanders, doesn't suffer from it. Sure it has meta commanders, which are just almost always a better option (just like soviets), but almost all of them can be picked and played without the feeling that you are intentionally handicapping yourself. |
One could start by removing mark target from Mechanized Support Tactics and Guard Motor Coordination Tactics (and moving the ability to two other weaker commanders) while adding a powerful late game off map to Partisan.
During redesign I had also suggested giving them access to doctrinal PAk 40.
That would probably be enough.
Thing is, even without marked target meta commanders would have been still picked almost always. Problem with soviets in particular is that they have way too many slots wasted on the abilities which couldnt be justify its own slot imo.
Like Armored Vehicle detection, sure, cool ability, but it doesn't give that much to take whole slot.
Cons repair kit also is cool, but shouldn't take its own slot just for that.
Vehicle crew repair also takes up slot and gives you just that.
PPSH package aren't particularly good to begin with and usable only with cons builds.
AT ambush also ok-ish, but whole slot just for a single unit ability.
Even if you draw clear comparison with similar abilities other factions have, you will almost always end up with something which is either better, available earlier, paired with something or more units benefit from it.
I'm not saying that soviets are UP or something, but this is honestly was a total hypocrisy with the commander update. When all the other factions got at least some sort of an ability merges into a single comm slot, soviets got nothing in this regard.
No wonder people just pick commanders with the most amount of actually usable and justifiable per slot abilities.
wehrmacht camo gives all of your infantry & MG-42, giving them a FIRST STRIKE bonus too
Also sprint for some reason  |
1- the ppsh costs muni and that can be an issue when you are lacking muni, but you at least get a 5th model. agreed it could be free tbh
2- I have played with AT partisans and they are quite lackluster. I think that they should be buffed with a slight damage buff (120 -> 160 damage) so you can one hit kill rocket artillery behind the frontline, or give them sprint
3- true, partisans could get a potential x1 dp-28 upgrade, along with a reinforce point to let them have a guerrilla resistance playstyle
4- true 2, long-medium range soviet elite infantry costs 27 to reinforce, penals 25 after mobilize reserves. Not to mention that they can be merged, potentially cutting down reinforce to 18
Imagine me being in balance team:
1) Replace AT ambush with Urban defence HQ
2) Replace radio intercept with either scorched earth or Team Weapon drop
????
4) Kinda usable commander
But hey soviets are only allowed to have like 5 actually usable commanders out of all  |
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Theoretically, for 210MP you get really good CQC squad, with camo nades and ambush bonus.
But besides the fact that CoH2 is about go meta or nothing, there are clear problems:
1) Why PPSH even cost muni to begin with, while airborn guards and stormtrooprs get their smgs for free. Hardly justifiable that they are just more expensive.
2) AT partisans honestly suck, 1 schreck on a squishy 4 men squad.
3) Why there is no way to get reinforcements on the field or any kind of FOBs
4) For what they are partisans are expensive to reinforce
5) Vet is meh |
from a dev perspective:
the problem with all these is they a too hard to differentiate when normies are playing. The gun is too small.
This is honestly so-so argument. Firstly unit could use different skin (the same way elite tiger was made) as well as additional details could be added (relic already flexed with new ways of attaching models to one other).
I mean, the most innocent reason could be that, Relic just listed to whines about how allies never truly had a super heavy tank, then just opened wiki and selected fist super heavy they've found.
But I doubt this is a reson.
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Much wow. While its good to know they aren't actually that stupid, to release clearly unfinished game, its still quite sad, because it was obliviously typical marketing move to get as many pre-orders as possible with a false release date.
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Then whats the real problem here????? This is my entire point, if something that is commonplace in coh2 bothers u more than the BP, why are u even complaining about the BP?
Thing is, CoH2 already made a bad example in this regard. Starting from over-using rare units, ending up completely breaking the immersion by adding poorly added USF\OKW\UKF, especially considering there was no need to do it, because OKW might as-well have been joined forces of Axis representing Hungry\Italy\Spain and so on. Soviets could have easily received faction similar to PE, being Guards and why not.
Ever core factions mechanics could have been the same. Be it Sov.Guards as a reskin for USF for example.
But at very least Relic tried to keep game some what realistic during release and messed it up later.
BP on the other hand already pointing out on release that "creative freedom" will most likely be a common thing, which in itself can lead to a lot of BS. |
As I stated previously, I'd personally rather not have the BP in the game for various reasons. But it also won't completely break immersion for me if Relic keeps it. I can live with it, but I also don't get why Relic clings on to the BP so much.
That's pretty much my point of view, and probably original idea behind this thread (before it ended up comparison olympics).
As I was always saying, there is nothing wrong with BP being in the game if we look at CoH history, Relic might as well decided to add yet another layer of fiction.
My main complain, is that, if you read between lines, existence of BP doesn't even make sense considering how Relic wanted to present CoH3.
I mean, in one of the videos relic employees proudly said something like "We received feedback from a community, saying that US Rifles model uses wrong model of a jacket and we changed it"
The whole reasoning why BP should be in the game and especially the fact Relic protect the existence of BP is very concerning. I am 99,9% sure its not because "big tanks sell games" or because its cool or even I am not sure that it has any balance reasoning behind it, since (at least from file digs) there are no indications that DAK\Wehr would have anything heavier then tiger\panther.
In other words, Relic intentionally adding and keeping BP in the game, and most likely solely to allow more prototype units added into the game. And if this is the case, they would be either used as a selling point in DLC content or it will be used to plug holes in balance, instead of creating interesting asymmetrical gameplay. |
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