Overwatch is literally just frustrating because it has LeFH, but you already with current meta aren't suppose to play neither side without anti-arty call-in in teamgames.
Jaegers litteraly do no damage the closer you get to them, which is sometimes the problem for UKF, unless they spam bren mandos, which is also a meta, which hard counters jaegers pretty badly. Not to mention that they are by far the weakest OKW elite inf, since they start kicking ass only around vet 3 and they take shit ton of time to vet up.
Loiter is the strongest one unitility wise, but allies AA is still on top of the Axis one, so you can pretty much make it 200muni waste.
Still, I'd pick playing against Overwatch in teamgames, over Breakthrought, which is by far the worst, because besides having arty, it has everything overwatch has but better. |
You want to argue that riflemen are crap and dragging the faction down?
There is no need to argue, for teamgames its a fact. Power of rifles comes exclusively from picking favourable engagements, flanking and 1v1ing. And even in 2v2 you more often then not fight your opponent face to face with very little room to actually win by out positioning and rifles are only good at that, in fair combat they are garbage for 280MP squad.
Pathfinder being used as mainline infatry is an issue that should simply should be fix even if riflemen are crap and USF are doing bad.
Who cares, no patches are comming anyway |
Yet priest is the most popoluar commander in 4vs4 (so I doubt that 99% play Airborne in 4vs4) so one can play 4vs4 without Pathfinders and win
Yet, in every other gamemode airborne is top picked commander, even in top 200 4v4. As for global 4v4, its a difference, based on map and match up. There is no reason to go for x2 paths of you are double USF on one side, or you are on forest side on map like red ball. |
I just provided the winrates of USF in 4vs4 games and they are doing as good or better than other factions. What makes you think that USF are worse than soviet or UKF in teamgames?
Because 99% of USF players (me included) abuse paths into snowballing scotts? Literally its either airborne or inf company (if you are double USF).
Having high winrates because of a broken strategy doesn't mean that the stock faction is working fine. |
That is inaccurate. The original designed had USF with limited access to support weapons so they either got light vehicles support or support weapons (because of that those those units where OP).
Question still remains, why rifles, being 280MP unit have problems fighting much cheaper mainlines. Considering in early game, you have access to nothing but mortar and your starting unit is actually the weakest one in the game.
USF get a T0 mortar which is a support weapon.
Thats nice. Still it doesn't help, that 280MP squad have troubles fighting 240MP grenadiers, unless they are able to close the distance like conscripts.
IS do not have a mortar as support weapon or snares or the mainline infatry and they have to carry the faction. Actually UKF are worse designed than USF so I am not sure why you want to bring them up.
Again, purely 1v1 thing. In teamgames, where you can stale or rely on your teammate a bit, UKF is doing just fine. Not to mention, that 2 commanders comes with 0CP mortar call-in, and 2 have access to it. I'm bringing exactly to point out that unlike USF, UKF at least got commanders to cover different playstyles based on a gamemode.
T1 and Penal are also badly designed and one has to build time and MP on building T1 before having access to them.
In 1v1 yes. In teamgames they work just fine.
As shown from stat USF are doing fine in 1vs1 and have higher win ratios than OKW/Ostheer so do not see any indication that faction is doing bad.
And I am not speaking about 1v1 what so ever, because in 1v1 USF can actually make use of rifles.
None of that changes the fact that Pathfinder should not have the role of mainline infatry.
And I never said they should. |
The Faction had an original design that has being changed patch after patch. Same applies for USF.
And this led USF to be in the place where it is. Because original unit design was changed, while core design ideas of faction were left. Besides PF abuse, the only saving grease of USF in teamgames, is min 0 forward reinforcement abuse, which is just as cancerous to play against.
Mainline infatry are supposed to be the core of faction army. Same applies for USF.
Facts. Problem is, even if we left alone the fact that literally all other factions have units to support mainline early and not go for x3/4 mainlines, before getting support units, Rifles aren't performing as 280MP mainline, especially when you have either 10MP cheaper IS or 10MP more expensive Penals, both of which out perform rifles straight off the bat + have support units to back them up straight off the bat as well. |
USF stopped relying on mainline infatry and got easier access to support weapon with the Tech rework.
Easier access doesn't mean, they aren't relying mainly on inf. Other factions aren't relying on mainline, because ostheer and soviets have plenty of support weapons early into the game to mix or skip their mainlines. On top of having a lot of call-in options.
UKF can either spam mainline, chose one of the dozens of mainline replacements or even go for support weapons as well.
OKW can either go for PFs, STs, Volks or even stale with kubels until call-in elites.
What USF can do? You are still, no matter how you want to play will go for at least 2 rifle squads + officer, if you aren't picking PFs\Ass.Engis. Even with easier access to support weapons\LVs, your core army will still be made out of rifles and first 5 mins you will be playing with them almost exclusively. |
Idk about them working for free. All other factions more or less got decent to good reworks.
Soviets got needed late game inf buff and semi-elite inf, Ostheer got its tech prices fixed and bleed fix, UKF can off-set its weaknesses with commanders to some extend.
USF on the other hand got dog-shit. Hell, faction which is supposed to rely on mainline exclusively didn't even receive late game MP bleed adjustments, while factions which rely on combined arms did.
I mean, realistically speaking. What would have had changed, if Rifles had AI of a 5 men penal squad. Just lock forward ambu reinforcement, until your T1\2 is unlocked, to make reinforcement similar in timing to other factions and its literally it. Its not like, soviet T1 play is making ostheer\OKW unplayable, why USF should. If anything, starting USF MP could have been lowered a bit, to delay third rifle if it would have been needed. On top of the fact that, unlike soviets, RE is actually a completely useless unit, which cant even be equipped with a flamer without commander, unlike CE.
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Realistically whole USF problem, is happened because balance team brainfarted about them massively.
For instance, pre-nerfed pak howi. Ok, was really strong, but OP only when it was combined with recon howi pak howi cheese para-drop. When it was teched properly it was fine by its timing. Yet, instead of fixing recon company, pak howi was nerfed for some reason. And funny enouth, soviet 120mm is much worse now, in terms of how its abused in teamgames, then pak howi was.
Rifles. Kicked in the nuts, because mainly they were problematic due to early forward ambulance, which on its own keeps bringing problems. Yet, rifles were changed and not the forward ambu.
And pretty much all USF problems comes exclusively because of this. UKF was given like 3 options to change their playstyle depending on the mode\map. Rec.Engis\Raid Sections\Ass.Tommies.
Yet, USF got nothing, besides path finders which is literally another brainfart and over-sight from a balance team. Rifles are objectively the weakest mainline for its cost. For instance, Penals cost 290MP and literally destroy pretty much everything if played right, Rifles cost 280MP and trade almost 1to1 with Grens, unless its 1v1 and you can close distance instantly.
Against penals, you are expected to lose with cheaper inf but you either can overwhelm them, out-position them or lose but end up winning MP wise. Rifles on the other hand can just plain and simply lose against cheaper units, even if played right.
Point being, instead of fixing synergy\design problems which led to USF over-performance, for some reason core units were nerfed\changed.
Point being, balance team literally put USF in a position, where patch after patch, they had to rely on cheesing and abusing something in team games, even in 2v2. But at the same time, its either 1 brain-cell abuse or self handicapping. |
Can you guys stop projecting whole BP situation into CoH2 balance\state and use it as a justification\reasoning behind its existance?
CoH3 is not CoH2 to begin with and even CoH2 isn't a CoH1.
CoH2 has its problems in bigger gamemodes with amount of heavy units, but it wasn't the case for instance in vCoH (where axis vet rush was the problem in larger gamemodes).
CoH3 is a new game, even freaking Panther is a doc unit in it and heaviest confirmed german tank is Tiger 1, yet half of the thread is "Well in CoH2 allies had to deal with unrealistic amount of heavy armor\Axis had all the heavies to play with, therefore in CoH3 ...". Forget about previous games.
We didnt even get proper MP test, yet, there are already people preaching that BP is gonna be KT equivalent\counter, despite CoH3 not having KT confirmed to be in the game in a first place.
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