Seriously, this entire topic is way ridiculous... listening stupid suggestions from 4v4, talking about examples in particular games, not even focusing on real unbalance.
You are not even trying to balance the game, you are changing it everytime, not exactly same thing.
I know you can't balance correcly this game.
On SC2, it's hard with only 3 factions and they only try to balance the 1V1 mode. How do you expect to do great job by changing everything at the same time on 5 factions with more than 6-7 doctrine every one in 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4. Good luck mate ^^
However, you still can try... But process step by step with real logic construction.
Unabalance is most of the time due to OP doctrine like Land Matress doctrine for british for example. We don't ask you to cancel everything, but it would be nice to work on price and timing only. Make a patch and wait for feedbacks for 1 or 2 changes. It's like trying to find a frequency on radio but doing it by modifying amplitude, scale, frequency or anything else at the same time. I still wonder how you can be surprised by unexpected feedbacks.
SO... i know it can be arrogant to say my following words but 4v4 opinion isnt interesting at all, Sorry folks. I'm repeating but this entire discussion is pointless, plus people in 4V4 are like 95% of the time not as good as a top 500 in 2v2 or 1v1.
In conclusion, even if we agree about OP units according decent players in 1v1 or 2v2, only change timing or price as first step; and don't allow 3v3 4v4 players to claim patchs.
How can people make suck gratuitous affirmation....How lame and immature.
Format type is a matter of taste. Refrain bashing others. |
To add to conversation I want to propose some potential tier reworks, because I believe the root of most problems are related to how specific factions tiers are structured. Here are my propositions.
Other than that here's my opinion on some problems with factions:
Ostheerostheer
- g43 blobs get both stun nades and rifle nades making the unit effective at all ranges (solution: make rifle nades and stun nades negate themselves, so having g43 leaves you with stun nades only)
- stun nades are too effecient they both deal dmg and stun which combined with g43 is too lethal (my solution either stun or dmg not both)
- stuka bombing is too effecient vs soviet howitzers and infantry (solution: make it kill crew of stationary howitzer but not the hovie itself, just damage it, also lower its AOE range vs infantry and make it a bit less anti-infantry effective)
- elephant is too effecient (solution decrease cost in both mp and fuel to make it less of an investment decrease its dmg so it cant 2 shot heavy tanks etc., implement stationary mode where with longer range and faster rotation speed and mobile mode with lower range and lower rotation speed but increase speed acceleration for faster repositioning, and please keep it in line with other units of the same class like jagdp, isu-152, make them have same range etc.)
- german trenches should be accesible fonly for germans
- pak43 needs to be more consistent to use, its too easy to counter or decrew (propose: making it impossible to decrew, only abandoned like brit emplacements)
- hulls down underperforming (need to be easier to use)
- panzer tactician is too effecient (should cost more muni, have higher cooldown)
- reconaissancce overflight is too effecient in comparison to allied recon getting shot down constantly (my solution, lower cost and lower its duration time by half)
- tactical movement ability is not cost effective enough (should be cheaper)
- stormtroopers call in unprepared, upgrades on them are bit too expensive (solution: make stormtroopers call in with one stg already and one slot open for a weapon of choosing)
- S-mines spam overperforming (my solution increase thier price to 90, increase laying time)
OKWokw
- first and foremost I propose rebuilding okw tiers
- sturmpios early game rush + building hopping makes okw open on some maps impossible to counter (my solution make okw start with kubel since everyone is basically building that unit second anyways)
- sturmpios have too many tasks to perform so make them cheaper so we can have more of them, (lower their dmg, make them more resiliant so you can have more of them)
- double kubel opens on open maps with low cover makes it hard to counter because they are too resilient and get repaired too easily (my solution, make kubels less tanky and give them stealth when out of combat and when not capping points, that way kubel stays in its place and is able to harass the map thoughout the game, give more resiliance with vet)
- isg autofire too effective in teamgames, (make barrage more effective and nerf autoattacks)
- aa halftruck is impossible to kill because of smoke spam (solution make the cooldown higher so it can be punished for bad positioning)
- volks incediary nades overperform, no upgrade is needed, throw animation is fast and they explode making it hardest to dodge (my solution either make their animation slower/easier to dodge, or make impact dmg lower, or the best way would be implementing an upgrade in t1 for them to be used)
- since okw atg range is so low (it would be best to increase their performance by increasing their rotation speed spightly)
- lufftwaffe heavy fortifications aa battery is underperforming big time, too easy to decrew or be destroyed (make it similar to brit encampments, increase its cost a bit, but make it more resilient, impossible to decrew only abandoned if low hp and give ability similar to brit brace)
- sturm offizier risky to build because of the forces retreat if focus fired (my solution, remove forced retreat)
- jagdpanzer overperformig same as elefant (lower cost in mp and fuel, but at the same time lower its stats, implement stationary fast rotation mode with longer range and mobile mode with shorter range but better acceleration, twime switching between modes shoulb be significant)
- HEAT shells are overpriced and underused (lower the price
- sturmtiger too effecient vs infantry and tanks alike (make it exclusive with kt, make it less effective vs either tanks or infantry)
- s-mines (same as ost)
- pak43 (same as ost)
- lufftwaffe airborne assault underperforming hard (my solution make it drop 2 fallschimjeagers, but the strafe only suppresses and deals no dmg, on top of that adjust the price, split it into mp and muni so its not too expensive to use, but also increase its cooldown so its not spammable)
- jaeger infantry underperforming (propose making them more resilient so they can actually gain veterancy)
- spec ops artillery flares are extremely overperforming because of the low cost, high reliablity and no counterplay (proposition 1 change it to standard reconaissance plane, proposition 2 instead of making it global make it a ranged ability dependend on truck position and lower its duration time on top of that)
USFusf
- usf tiers are really poorly designed making their games hit or miss instead of stable performance, cpt is a go to tier in teamgames and lt is too risky, I propose tier rework for usf too (move atg to t1, move aa to t2, move mortar to t1, move m20 to t2, readjust lt and cpt prices, cpt should cost less fuel and much more more mp so m20 can have an impact, lt should cost a bit more fuel and much less mp, remake aa into transport veihicle with potential aa upgrade)
- lt is overperforming (solution make bar an upgrade buy for him)
- m20 being underused in teamgames (my solution rework tiers)
- major is great because of the potenatial of bringing in forward return point, but this way all other major abilites are udnerused (my proposition is to rework captain, take away major return point ability and give it to the captain, take away captain bazooka instead, this will make major use more other major abilities, this way usf and okw will get foward return points at approximately the same time)
- overall t3 for usf comes very late unless you are very ahead so it makes sherman an even worse choice
- sherman is a useless tank because it has no specific purpose (proposition, make it less effective vs infantry, make it much more resilient, with same fire power, make sherman a meat shield tank)
- M8A1 accuracy is too high, its too effective (lower accuracy)
- pathfinders come on the battlefield too late (lower cp from 1 to 0 but increase cooldown between them so you cant spam them faster than rifles; also to prevent double bar cheese restrict pathfinders to 1 slot only)
- paradrop 50cal without a crew is useless during a battle and thats what paradropping is meant for (solution paradrop 50cal with a crew, adjust mp, increase cooldwon between so its not spammable)
- paradrop atg (same as 50cal, add crew and adjust mp, increase cooldwon between so its not spammable)
- paratroopers tactical assault too effective (make it deal less dmg, but also remove increased dmg taken)
- p-47 ineffecient (since usf is already muni hungry decrease price)
- 240 howitzer barrage ability is underused because of its cost, while at the same time its very powerful (to make it more useable decrease its power and lower price)
- wolverine was overperforming (dont know how is it after the patch)
- rifleman field defenses mines laying takes too much time (decrease the time of laying mines to make on par with other factions)
- off map smoke barrage too cheap (increase price slightly)
- pershing cp too high, stats are basically the same as panther but its slightly better, but it takes 13 cp points like in case of tiger (lower cp from 13 to 11 - for refference command panther is 10 and tiger 13)
- m21 mortar halftrack is underused, its a bit too expensive and has no nische (make it a support teams hunter, more accurate barrage and special barrages)
- priest howitzer decrewing abuse (basically all popcap lowering through decrewing should be fixed)
- mechanized company underused (m3 halftruck assault group change assault engineers to rangers in that ability and adjust mp) might make that commander more playable
- recon support underused (i&r pathfinders add 1 model to make 4 man squads, m8 greyhound make lower cp to 2 instead of 3 (would be on par with t1) make its canister shot more effective at killing infantry, airdropped combat group randomness of what you get is too unreliable which makes it a risky and very high cost investment because you basically need to have a float of mp to be able to use it, since you will be having lots of fuel I propose lower mp cost and add cost in fue, also make one squad random weapons but second squad vanilla so the player can decide what he needs, also make atg crewed)
- rifle company has no pressure early-midgame, basically 2 abilities are completely useless, this commander needs a rework to gain more early-midgame pressure so usf can survive to easy eights
- calliope is too hard to kill compared to other artillery units (make it less tanky)
BRITSukf
- tommy sections early dmg is too high (some kind of nerf needed)
- mortar pits are overperforming (proposition decrease attack speed)
- sapper units underperforming on heavy sapper upgrade (lower their damage, remove slow and decrease armor, make it into assault unit)
- croc flame overperforming
- 17 pounder underused (lower its dps and attack speed but leave penetration and durability, lower its cost)
- commando regiment commando glider makes it impossible for commandos in this doctrine to be stealth (proposition either make them paratroop or jump out of a building instead of glider landing)
- royal artillery underused (early warning ability lower cp from 3 to 2, lower muni cost slightly but increase cooldown so its not spammable, concentration barrage lower cp from 4 to 3, valentine tank lower cp from 6 to 5 (on par with puma) since its utility comes mainly from coordination with sextons
- sextons underperforming (solution change veterancy, lvl 1 - +13% range + creeping barrage, lvl 2 and 3 - +13% range and barrage recharge -20% - overall it will be a small buff of 9% more range in total but more smoothly added
- permieter overwatch overperforming dramatically (lower cost, make it one specific friendly territory, lower cooldown between barrages and increase cooldown of ability so it cant be spammable)
- royal engineer underperforming - stand fast ability ineffecient (either make it one long repair with ability to overrepair emplacements (add hp on top what they have) but with long cooldown, or a spammable low ammount hp repair with lower cost; anti building flame mortar is unreliable because of its how situational it is (propose lower cp from 8 to 7 or 6); avre is underperfoming because its neither the dmg monster like sturmtiger or it doesnt shoot fast enough (solution increase avre basic range around +20%)
- special weapons regiment - tank hunter infantry underused because it comes a bit too late (proposing lowering cp from 2 to 1)
- tactical support regiment underused - forward observation post is too situational and comes too late in to the game (lower cp from 10 to 6 and tune down its abilities and cost)
Sovietssoviets
- maxim underperforming in its new role (solution increase suppresion slightly)
- cons molotov underperforming (molotov throw speed should be on par with other nade abilities)
- cons need some kind of scaling into late game to match other main infantry
- t34 fuel cost is too low (should be increased slightly)
- t70 lost its nische as infantry killer and its fuel cost doesnt represent its current strength (lower fuel cost, increase mp cost)
- katyusha durability doesnt match other factions durability making it too easy to dive or even kill by elite infantry like fallschimjaegers (increase durability to match stuka)
- soviet shock troops underused ( decrease their armor from 2 to 1,5 and durability and increase weapon dps from short to short-mid range)
- doctrinal conscript assault package underused (proposition 1 - change weapon profile from short to short-mid or proposition 2 change instead of giving ppsh give them svt and making cons in con oriented doctrines have more mid-late range weapon profile and better late game scaling also synergising better with hit the dirt abilities)
- advanced warface tac undersused (solution change radio intercept with some early pressure ability, sturmovig attack isnt as effective as cp 12 sturmovig overflight attack so recommend lowering cp from 10 to 8)
- kv 8 flame dmg stil a bit too much but im not sure
- ml20 howitzer shoots too long making it too hard to repair okw buildings in time before the next salvo (solution decrease cooldown between salvos a bit)
- isu 152 underperforming - (make it on par with other heavy tank destroyers)
- tank hunter tactics rpg-40 anti tank grenade assault seems redundant with ant tank grenade upgrade from hq, more over ability itself constantly misses (solution change ability for something more anti-infantry because with this doc soviets lack the ability to deal with infantry at all)
- m42 at guns dramatically underperforming (solution increase penetration but leave low damage so they can actually hurt medium tanks)
I'would like to see your suggestions becoming a tuning patch. Look nice on paper...
Maybe a bit too much for the scope...dunno.
Seem pretty fair for all factions.
In any case great work.
Thanks ! |