No skilled Ostheer player builds all 4 tech buildings. In 1 v 1 or even in large games, a skilled player would either want a P4 + Doctrine support or Panther + Doctrine support. If 4 v 4 go on past 40 minutes mark and Ostheer/Sov sitting on fuel than both players would build T3/T4 in addition.
No they dont. its call in meta. get to tiger. get with the program. |
Keep in mind that if grens are made 5 man, they would need to have their DPS lowered by 1/5 as well.
Because right now, if an ostheer squad wants to be equal with a soviet 6 man squad, it as a rule needs to do 50% more DPS due to the higher soviet squad sizes. However, if grens were made 5 man, then they would only need to do 25% more DPS in order to compete.
LMGs and G43s would probaly have to get nerfed as well.
or their price need to be increased to 300. and i would be fine by that as the ost main infantry is a bit to wipy at the moment.
That said grens are highly efficient units |
Test yourself, T-34/76 vs Panzer IV, the latter wins 10/10.
In a vacuum, Panzer IV is outmatched. In reality, it has better vet and Axis only support items like Panzerschreck or Panzer Tactician or Blitz so it can easily get away from situations where others are not around to make up for its minor disadvantages, so it makes sense for the Soviet tank to have the better stats especially with Panther around. Compare to the Panzer vs 76 matchup where Panzer has both advantages. Axis is or about should be supporting fewer tanks with your great support and getting the best out of them but you don't have to do that against Soviet stock vehicles.
It should of course cost as much as it does in the single Advanced Warfare call in. Consider that. And check my thread for more elaborate arguments on this.
I actually did test it. It was more of a 7/10 in favour for the p4. the differences between the p4 and the t-34 is minor compared to the p4 vs e8/85/ su sherman. And you can support i can say how much. you forget that support is not free and the su and usf have their own support.
That said my issue is not with the p4 . The biggest issue with ost tier 3 is the lack of a tank destroyer tier 3 and unlike SU who can pump out su85's the ost really gets no choice. if you tech up to tier 4 to get a panther you are fucked if you are up against callins because your single panther is going to face 4 e8's/85's. |
The argument about German T3 being nullified by the T-34-85's arrival is the exact same argument you could have about the Germans having the Panther non-doctrinal.
Not by a long shot. if a panther destroys the 85 then its task is done. if the 85 stomps out your tier 3 armour he will rampage through your army . This has always been the strength of the 85 and the e8 strong enough to be substitute heavy tank destroyers . remember that 2 85's have far more firepower then 1 tiger. |
I'd love to see T-34/85 being standard T3 vehicle and T-34/76 being a AI beast call in.
T-34/85 is about equal to PzIV. Not better.
Panther will quickly kill one of them and then run away to safety. Been there, done that. With a bit of luck you can even take them both out. Keep your front armour towards the enemy all the time.
So you consider an unit that has 25 % more hp and penetration with only slightly less armour and dps to be equal tot he p4. dude test it out yourself a battle between a 85 and a p4 is 10/10 in favour for the 85. |
Lets also ignore the fact that unless you want to spam more then 4-5 of them the cost difference means only 30-50 second difference on hitting the field and nothing more.
Means shit one is more expensive and thus better but not by much. especially if you compare the p4 vs t-34 matchup to the p4 and 85 /e8 matchup. Do not change the subject tittitof the ost tier 3 has the same problem as the SU tier 3. which is the reason this game is currently pure callin meta. |
Oh, you know, common sense and general performance way.
T34 is worse against armor and infantry then P4.
T70 is worse against infantry then Ostwind.
M5 is worse against planes and infantry then ostwind.
StuG is rather unique, but soviets would kill for something that can stun vehicles and penetrate them better then T34 while having superior range to other T3 armor in T3.
Yeah lets ignore the fact that these units cost more. But the ost and su tier 3 share the same problem : No AT and callins are flat out better. |
Really? Last time I checked OH T3 was vastly superior to the Soviet T3.
In what way? |
Making Soviet's have the Ostheer teching system isn't going to stop call in meta, it will make it worse.
Oh it would be a small part of my master plan to utterly destroy the boring callin meta thats currently plaguing coh 2 . i woud tie callins to tier would remove BP4 for ost entirely and would make the ost tech tree somewhat similar to the soviets. buff the stug to become a real TD again and buff the su85 roation. and nerf the 85 and e8's penetration rate. as far as im concerned mediums should have no business dealing with heavies. the task for dealing with heavies should only be for the dedicated TD's |
The T34 comes in before the Panther does, and is much better at killing enemy infantry. The T34 is nowhere comparable to the Panther in cost or in unit role.
True but that doesnt change the fact that tier 3 is completely unappealing because of it lack of AT. Soviets really should have have access to tier 3 and 4. and the best way to do so is to reduce the fuel cost of tier 4 by 70 if tier is build and vica versa. |
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