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I dont want to be coy here.. but I miss they way the units moved and fought from the first game.
It was glory to behold, and nothing in coh2 so far comes close. Doesn't matter if it was mortars, arty, the bike, the pershing it was all beautiful.
Right now the game is good, I'm glad to see relic coming in and participating ect but as a coh game it cant simply be good, it needs to be amazing and without the right changes its not going to be.
It has a lot of the right ingredients, but things need to be looked into and the right people need to be listened to before coh2 becomes a truly fantastic game. |
Su85 is op? I'm sorry but I can't take your post seriously
It looks like your already haven't taken it seriously enough to read it properly. I think su 85 is an OP unit, but im proposing much better At guns at the same time, in which soviet would have the advantage as they can also turn into arty..
I am talking a better balanced game, and better army for the soviets so they dont have to lean on one OP unit and spam it.
The very concept of the su85 basically spits all over the company of heroes name, as it stands right now. Things need to change for this game to be as good as the original.
It can be different than voch as long as it preserves the core things that make vcoh the best RTS game ever made, when those things get ignored and replaced then the whole franchise suffers.
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I'm just thinking... Since the majority of the players in CoH2 play mostly team games (3vs3 - 4vs4), do you really think that the Soviet players would stand a chance vs. the Germans if you nerfed the only half not worthless thing they have to hold off the German tank spam?
Early game is bad enough with Assgrens immediately backed up by fausting LMG grens and MG42s, not to talk about the mid game PGrens, FHT and the early P4s. If you survived that long you know what's coming and if you haven't dropped since there's a theoretical chance of you winning the game then the SU85s are your only option. If you'd nerf them then the game would be even more unplayable in larger team games. If you would compensate this by buffing the AT gun as you say, you would make the Special Rifle Command obsolete which would give the chance for the Assgrens and LMG grens to ravage even more freely on your frontline.
Hmm you do have a point about tank spam in 2v2 + but then again with the changes i talk about, having at guns would be enough to smash those tanks. I am talking about at guns being awesome vs tanks and nothing else, barring that barrage ability vs inf.
I want the game mechanics to be more like vcoh and much less like DOW2 which right now it is. At guns should be enough of a deterrent to tanks, not some half tank busting hald infantry sniping thing that no one really builds.
But realistically if the su85 had less health, it would go down faster when flanked.. nothing which good micro and army positioning cant fix therefore germans would be rewarded for getting off a good attack, and if that didnt happen then su85 would be as good as it is now.
I think a lot of people are jumping into this thread, seeing su85 and just commenting without looking. I want a balanced game, one which rewards both teams, which rewards great play and is a joy to play, I dont want one team to be better than the other, or for op units to be spammed for wins.
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1. Response times. Seems overegged to me. Sometimes the case but not sure it's a huge deal.
2. Firing on the retreat is a change I like tbh.
3. Cover. It does more or less the same as in VCoH. Changes to lethality and grenades have made it feel different. Making units stay in cover properly would be nice.
4. Physics. Doesn't really matter to me/hadn't noticed.
5. Weapons damage. Essentially disagree. Small arms Fire into
6. Suppression. Half-agree, don't really like the suppression buttons of G-43s and BARs.
7. Has already been fixed imo.
8. Closer arty is more accurate than more distant arty. I like mortars more in COH 2 personally.
9. (unit speed) This is basically balls. Microing light vehicles effectively is neither hard nor unrewarding.
10. (resources) This is also untrue. You starve someone they will have less vehicles.
11. (early, mid, late) Again, untrue.
12. Agreed.
13. SU-85 no longer has speed, as well as having no turret. Its health is kind of unexceptional. If you halved the health noone would build them
14. I don't actually care about unit abilities. Molotovs are obviously not OP.
15. This is not a serious argument/doesn't really make the distinction between the COH 1 and COH 2 mechanics.
16. srsly.
Overall, some good suggestions, some bullshit, very strange implied opinion of current balance and SU-85s...
I dont agree with you mostly but appreciate your feedback, I personally think vcoh is much more polished and things just worked better, thats what I would like to bring back to coh2.
The half health thing for su85 is a suggestion, it could also be made slower, have less armour, less range or damage. Right now I think removeing some health would make its more balanced, to get tanks to flank it is hard enough but when they do, even panthers bounce shots off it sometimes, and take 5-6 shots to kill it from the rear... im sorry but isu152 or is2 is less work to take out and they cost 2-3 times as much, thats not balance, its nonsense.
Having it do what it does but make it take a bit less more punishment, its not some super tank that should go head to head with AT specialist tanks and which cost 2 times as much and send them packing.
Even if the health was taken down, if well supported it would still be just as good as it is now, so I think it would be a good trade off. |
Geschütswagen, Nashorn (Blitzkrieg only)
Fair enough but that was an additional unit and situationally.. not s unit you get every game basically. |
Sluggish response – They are aware of this and are working on it. It has improved since release.
Cover – I think they are aware of this and are working on it.
Physics – I don't understand why they did this. Perhaps porting their code to the new engine was too difficult.
Reward flanking – This has been addressed. Why do you mention this?
Unit speed – I think it's fine. It feels more strategic. If I see a p4 at the top of the map, I know I have time at the bottom of the map before I have to deal with it. Positioning matters more with slower units as you are forced to make commitments.
The same logic applies to low small arms fire. The game is trying to favor strategic decisions over knee jerk twitch reactions. The RNG component is probably too significant though I agree.
Resources – I agree, you don't want an entire game to be decided in a matter of seconds. It's an ongoing struggle for superiority. Losing the map does greatly affect your tech speed. Note that normal points in this game provide fuel and munitions.
I like the tech speed as it is in the game now since I find the early game the slowest part.
At guns – I remember how AT guns were in COH1 and I liked them a lot better. If a tank was anywhere in that firing arc it was punished severely for it, and with such speed that reaction time was a factor. AT guns in coh2 have their place though.
Maps – Not a bad suggestion. I don't think narrow corridors favors either faction though.
Sluggish response – They are aware of this and are working on it. It has improved since release.
Yeh it has improved but it still is a big issue imo.
Cover – I think they are aware of this and are working on it.
I hope so, but as it stands right now, its nothing like vcoh, there was a huge difference between being caught out on the road even for a few seconds, and in green cover inf could take on tanks or mg delaying casulties for a fairly long time considering.
Physics – I don't understand why they did this. Perhaps porting their code to the new engine was too difficult.
Reward flanking – This has been addressed. Why do you mention this?
It was looked at but its still almost impossible to decrew the larger soviet squads, and theres no need to flank mg42 anymore - you just run up and throw molatov. Squads need to do more damage up close, and weapon crews need to be even weaker than the common ifnantrt soldier ( yes I know they take more damage but its not enough) |
Ah, my bad, should have clarified - I meant the comments so far, not the OP 
All good my bad |
Agree with most, I prefered infantry, mortar mechanics of VCOH by far.
And I really really dislike this fast paced paper/rock/scissors unit play. Huge impact RNG can have on the game and by far, the most, all the arty/Call in abilities and shit flying everywhere
As far as Su85 somewhat agree. On some maps its OP, on others its a rubbish bin (due to line of sight, and terrible vehicle pathing)
seems AT guns are good for everything (sniping units, counter-sniping sniper, being used as artillery) except being effective vs vehicles. Go figure
But in general, Yeah I agree.
Haha yeh it is a bit like that with the AT gun.. a bit strange. Yeh I dislike the unit play as well - and now I can explain why. Its just DOW2 with ww2 units, its nothing like coh was, that to me is a huge mistake.
Although DOW2 was fun, it was also no where near the level of vcoh and it was a massive mistsake them using it as a basis instead of the original game. |
Lol....you forgot to mention the mighty Elephant, the most unballanced crap tbh. Btw the Su-85s are the only cost-effective counter to german tanks, other tactics are just combinde-arms.
I was talking about overall game changes to make it better, in my opinion the elephant hardly warrants a mention. I have personally used it very rarely and it comes so late in the game, and at such a price that its not really a game breaker.
The other things that i mention are game breakers - this isn't a bash su 85 thread, its a game improvement thread.
I think there are things they need to do to make coh2 a lot better, and a lot of these things they got right in vcoh and for whatever reason decided to change for the worse in coh2. |
-What about fixing the Grens vs Cons early game?
-What about giving Soviets a viable counter to LMG Grens?
-What about the ridiculous RNG that too often decides a game?
-What about the fact that Germans don't even need T4 in a 1v1?
-What about the KV8 Flamer?
-What about how crap the T34-85 are?
-What about the 120mm mortars range and insta gib potential?
-What about the Ostruppen spam into T2 flamer HT?
There are so many other things that need fixing with the game other then just redesigning the SU85. Yeah the SU85 might be a strong unit, but really Soviets need it to be. How else are they going to stop a Tiger or a Panther? If the SU85 is lowered in health any more then it will just be gg every time Germans get two or more P4's and 3-4 Grens with LMG.
In my opinion, CoH2 can not be fixed without a MAJOR re-design of the Soviet faction. The Soviet faction is just complete shit design, that Relic need to admit that they fucked up and start again by releasing a beta patch with MAJOR re-designs of the Soviet faction.
I am currently writing an essay on my opinion of the Soviet faction and its requirement of a redesign.
Btw look forward to your write up bro, yeh i feel the game fails to capture the soviet war machine in any meaningful way. |
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