Profile of Cardboard Tank

Any nerf to the Elefant will render it useless. I hardly use it as I almost never use it cost effectively. It´s supposed to be a sniping bunker. But even two T-34s can counter it if lucky. One anti tank grenade can make it effectively immobile (if lucky). let´s face it: The Elefant is so slow that even a small engine damage let´s it crawl at the speed of a grandma in a wheelchair. That´s a huge gamble and to risky for 260 fuel. What remains is it´s spotting range, to effectively counter tanks in it´s line of sight. However with the horrible accuracy it has on long range even that´s doubtful.

If sight ragne was to be nerfed a slight mobility increase is needed or a buff to it´s accuracy on long range to encourage spotting.

IS-2 were design to hunt Tigers and I think Relic is trying to mimic this in the game. This could be the reason for recent Tiger nerf.

IS-2s were designed as breakthrough tanks. Their large gun was meant to bust bunkers and emplacements. With that rate of fire it couldn´t fight tanks that well. The trajectory wasn´t flat either. It was very hard to aim at long distances. If we go by design: The Panther was designed to counter tanks, the IS-2 wasn´t.

Complaining that you can't deal with them with Panthers is like complaining that you can't deal with a PzV (Panther) using T-34/76.

That´s a huge exaggeration. T-34/76 couldn´t go through the Panthers frontal armor. The Panther however could go through the IS-2s frontal armor. Panther is an anti tank-vehicle. So is the SU-85. Su-85 can give Tigers a serious beating, so Panther should give the IS-2 a serious beating.

Sounds like you are proposing that the Soviet heavy tank shouldn´t be countered by non doctrinal stuff (Panther), yet the German heavy tank should be countered by Soviet non-doctrinal stuff (Su-85).

Why would I build a Panther? It sucks versus infantry. It can basically only counter T-34s and somewhat SU-85s. Yet a Panzer IV can do the job better for cost. What remains is that the Panther can somewhat fight versus IS-2s. Take that away and German T4 is a joke.

I don´t get this whole topic. What´s needed is some upgrades for conscripts late game - to keep their usefulness. But any nerf to the Grenadiers early on will totally screw the game. The big MG42s don´t do their job any longer, some will disagree, but I don´t build them as blobs charge into their arc and kill it.

Now even Grenadiers shall get a nerf? You can´t be serious. Do you want German players to throw rocks at the Russians?

I don´t like the current concept of the Panther being supposed to be used as a flanking tank. This is not how it was used at all. The thing had weak side armor and was supposed to be used at range and get the hell out of close engagements. Atm. it´s a racecar that´s being rushed into SU-85 formations drives some circles, fights at a distance of 10 metres and drives out there again. It looks so silly.

That being said: I think the Panther should get more range (55) and better frontal armor. As a tradeoff the sides should be easy to penetrate, even by 76mm armed T-34s. Blitzkrieg speed buff should be reduced also. This way the Panther would be used correctly. As a long range anti tank weapon.

Right now it´s not worth 600mp. Alternatively the cost could be adjusted to something around 500mp, 145 fuel.

Elefant+Tiger says hi, seriously, just look at the 2v2 ladder, German side have terrifying streaks than the soviet side, you have trouble playing German in 2v2? Then go Soviet 2v2 to feel the might of Ostheer

Those streaks are a relict form the times the MG42 was overpowered. Now it´s underpowered. Tigers can´t beat teh Su-85+KV8 combo as they are outranged. The SU-85 was nerfed, but not to the extend the MG42 was. It can still sit back and snipe. What´s the point in a nerf to it´s speed when the problem remains that it sits in safety and two of them lock down the whole area for German tanks? Elefant is very situational and can be beaten by Soviet tanks and KV-8. The accompanying infantry is burnt within 20 seconds. With the insane reload time on the 88mm (is it a fricking ISU-152 projectile???) the damage output of the Elefant isn´t that great. Any T-34 coming close to it then eats it. 2x Su-85 + mark target also work.

I did change to Soviet side only and have a 10 win streak. Of the last 10 games as Germans I lost 6 or 7.