Thread: Su-8527 Sep 2015, 00:07 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing the pen lowered across the board by 20.
I wouldn't compare the Puma to the Su76. Compare it with a Stug which is 10mp/15f more expensive. A bit more maneurable platform, +40 dmg, +160hp, Mgs, -10 range (i think with vet it should gain 5-10), less ±0.8 RoF.
The SU-76 is meant to be a light tank destroyer, hence why it comes out in a tier with other light vehicles. Which is why it shouldn't scale so well, and why they have a heavier tank destroyer.
The Stug is a medium tank destroyer which is why it's available later with other medium armor. It is ostheers only tank destroyer which is why it's meant to scale vs heavier armor. It is just meant to be cheap in the same way that a T-34 is a cheap medium.
So no they aren't on the same level. One is a light vehicle the other is a medium. |
Thread: Su-8526 Sep 2015, 21:15 PM
Su76 is really good for timing and performance. Not "OP" but does it job perfectly.
The SU-76 scales way too well. It's supposed to be a light tank destroyer, but performs as well as the medium tank destroyers. It should be able to take on P4s, but should start suffering vs Panthers and Tigers.
The result I have been seeing is soviet players spamming them well into the late game which is ridiculous. Imagine if axis players were able spam Pumas and destroy IS-2s, that's pretty much what it's like. If soviet players want something to counter panthers and tigers they should be relying on SU-85s not su-76s. |
Thread: Su-8526 Sep 2015, 20:38 PM
It's not that bad. Could use a bit more rotation speed, but otherwise good.
The problem is that the SU-76 does the same thing for a much cheaper cost while having utility vs infantry. Making the SU-85 unnecessary. |
The problem is that it costs far less but does way more damage. It does only slightly less damage than Scavenge artillery with 700 munitions does and it does it over twice as large an area. It can one shot multiple OKW trucks, you can't even kill 1 OKW truck with IL-2 bomb strike and that's 200 munitions.
As USF to kill 1 OKW truck with call in artillery you need 360 munitions. As soviets you need 400. Why should Brit's have the ability to do far, far more for much much cheaper?
did you not read my first post? It shouldn't one shot okw structures. That should be changed. But it should still kill everything else. |
Like someone already stated, pathing and cramped maps can make this ability way to effective. Should be nerfed. There is a reason they took it out at first for Axis.
15 seconds is plenty of time to get anything that isn't a crippled heavy tank out of it's AOE. No map or pathing is that bad. It is meant to be the most powerful and expensive call in ability. There is no justification of any unit being able to sit in it's AoE and tank the damage. |
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I think we all agree it shouldn't kill the OKW buildings outright. But at that cost and delay, it deserves to kill everything else that stupid enough to stay within it's AoE.
Neither OKW base building or UKF emplacements should be killable by a single strike, period. |
Also I want to add. Look at Comet. This tank could be considered as "doctrinal" aswell, because you cant have both Churchill and Comet. But for some reason this unit cost you 185 fuel and its WEAKER in AT then Panther.
Comet you 185 fuel. Because its faster, have AI performance, 800 HP and nice penetration, can stand against all medium tanks, but could be damaged by AT guns and TDs, good range.
Panther cost 175 fuel. 800 HP Perfect frontal armor, good mobility, good range, zero AI perfomance, good penetration, weak to TDs.
E8 have 720 HP, mobility, good frontal armor against all medium tanks, good AI, really good penetration (200 penetration at close range), could be damaged by AT guns and TDs, can fight any Heavy tank frontally at close range or if flanking. Cost you 140 fuel
T34\85 have 800 HP, good mobility, good frontal armor against medium tanks (worst then E8 frontal armor, but it compensated by HP), decent penetration and decent AI performance, can fight all heavies if flanking. Cost you around 130 fuel.
PIV have 640 HP. Weak frontal armor without vet, with vet quite decent, decent AI performance, can fight all stock medium tanks, cant fight heavies even if flanking, good mobility, weak against all AT inf and tanks. Cost you 125 fuel.
Sherman have 640 HP. Weak frontal armor, poor AT perfomance, really good AI perfomance, decent mobility, cant fight heavies, weak against AT tanks, less weaker against AT inf.
T34\76 have 640 HP. Weak frontal armor, poor AT perfomance but better then shermans, decent AI, weak to any AT. Cost 90 fuel.
So how is this fair? Even for doctrinal units.
This is a great run down.
I think the thing to take away from this is that touching anything except penetration on the P4 would make it far too powerful vs all the other non-doctrinal mediums and whatnot.
The allied advanced mediums on the other hand used to come in slightly after medium armor was available instead of at the same time. I think we just need to go back to that so the soviets and USF can't immediately invalidate the P4 which they are better then in every way.
Maybe the prices also need looking at, but they should still be cheaper then the panther and comet though. Last thing we want is the allies not to be able to get the numbers they need to take out the heavies. |
Yeah forgot about tiger's CP. It should come at the same time.
No they shouldn't. The impact between a tiger and an easy 8 is a huge difference. Easy 8s are nowhere near a strong. |
That is an interesting suggestion, but then the CMD PIV would lose its appeal. What does that have to do with anything, it would remain the same. It's no advanced medium. |
Not a bad suggestion. Ez8 @ 14CP and T34 @11. Jesus christ, why is every number you throw out completely rediculous. 14 cp is more then a tiger. 11 or 10 for both would give the P4 plenty of time to have it's dominance.
They should come out as maybe the second tank around the same time as a panther. |
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