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I kind of think penal satchels are alright. Expensive, require charging in close with a long range unit, very obvious when they're coming, the most useful thing I've found for penals to do is to wipe MGs with this. Certainly less problematic in my experience than guard grenades, which are also very lethal but have better range, are cheaper and have much shorter timers. |
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@Ekko Tek, yeah, absolutely. I think buffing the 82mm mortar's accuracy might help a bit with that. Very map dependent with MGs but then, the same maps which favour MG-42s tend to also favour snipers, which exaggerates the problem.
@Cyridius,
Disagreeing with changes and criticising them is fine. This rhetorical question pretending the devs have no idea what they're doing nonsense is patronising.
Now the AT-nades and fausts work on penetration vs. armour value. This means it is a better idea to faust/nade the rear armour of a vehicle, which is one example of a higher skill ceiling and rewarding proper play and positioning over very low-skill oorahing towards the front of any slow-moving tank.
The other major thing is that now if you want a fully reliable solution to a flank on an SU-85 or a Tiger or whatever, you have to plan with mines or with a proper AT unit rather than just sticking the basic infantry unit next to it to shut down any attempt to flank close enough to circlestrafe.
Poker has a very high skill ceiling. It is basically 'random'. (Part 2 of that argument... if I wanted to be playing Starcraft I'd be playing Starcraft). |
T2 is not a good option for countering 2x MG42 openings. It costs more fuel than the T1 (not a lot, but still a delay) and most importantly does not contain units that allow you to easily take back territory like the M3 - ie. forcing retreats. Mortar - you are completely relying on luck and it is less accurate than the German one - they simply move back out of the barrage area if needed. Maxims cannot "soft counter" MG42s anymore as they will get pinned before the MG42 9/10 times. ZiS barrage - spending 60 munitions and hoping enough hit to force a retreat before it gets overrun by infantry isn't what I'd call a reliable counter. T2 and you're playing serious catch up on lost ground with less ability to force off the Germans. This is why almost all games it's T1 for M3 w/flame engineers and/or snipers.
You get T2 after some conscripts rather than first thing. It gives you more things that are good at holding territory rather than things that are good at taking it. The Maxim soft counter to an MG 42 involves either flanking around the arc or distracting the MG42 with another unit, which is why it's a soft counter (previously it was basically a hard counter in that you could just plonk it in an MG 42's arc and wait for it to win). Once it gets the pin off, you're laughing. The ZiS, like any AT gun, requires support but its barrage is reasonably good at making an MG move so you can move conscripts in against it.
Yeah, if you see more than 2 MGs, the T1->T4 option is basically the obvious one, since you have a ton of hard counters to MGs and more things that'll actually kill the MG rather than just forcing it off. If you see 1 or 2, tier 2 is reasonably good.
I think the increased fuel cost is a red herring, given scout cars cost fuel as well. |
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So much rage. Being patronising to the devs won't make you more audible.
Having a 100% reliable AT-nade + faust was, as PQ noted in the stream, killing vehicle flanking plays, especially with heavier tanks which are both slower and pricier most of the time (panther's an exception). I'd note that kiting the infantry is impossible when you have an SU-85 sitting around. The chance of engine damage on a heavy tank from a faust or AT nade to the front still seems reasonably good (from the devs stream), on medium tanks I think it's basically reliable. My main concern with it is the KV-8 but I think that concern is more a general balance one with that vehicle.
WRT ram: previously, T-34s were problematically weak against tier 3 and problematically strong against the more expensive tier 4, tigers, etc etc. You would ram a P-IV or anything stronger almost 100% of the time. Now you have more options against all German armour but also an incentive to not instantly ram anything just because you can. I take it you're aware of the greater amount of skill-based ram-related micro that's been added in with the patch? I believe that ram against P-IVs is still 100% reliable, right?
IMO, the genuinely reliable snares should be the ones that require, y'know, prior placement, rather than just oorahing conscripts at any vehicle not fast enough to get out of the way and then having the SU-85 bash away at it.
MG-42s have a lot of hard counters (sniper, M3 flamer, mortar) and some soft counters (conscripts in blizzard with molotovs, flanking conscripts, mortar smoke, maxims, ZiS barrage). More importantly, a lost/stolen MG-42 is an absolutely huge blow for the Germans. Not only are they much less able to decrew it but with the lack of molotovs, good snipers, etc etc they find it harder to displace it as well, and much much harder to steal. They may be a tad too quick on the suppression but I don't actually think they're that broken right now.
The suppression bulletin is probably too good right now but bulletin balance is kind of tangential to the core game, which needs to be nailed down a bit more before you can balance bulletins, I reckon.
Maxims are OK (they used to be insanely good vs. German T1 until relic raised the skill ceiling by making the MG vs MG battles dependent on using them well and by tweaking the set-up time, damage and suppression). They're not as strong as an MG-42 but they're much harder to punish, kill and steal. Soviet 82mm mortar needs to be a bit more accurate imo, otherwise I think the T2 building can offer you quite a lot.
Panzerwerfers are pretty good. Rare because T4. Quick recharge, reasonably accurate, high damage, indirect fire so don't have to go anywhere near an enemy's firing arc. All damage done in one barrage so you're not stuck firing at empty space for ages. Just as importantly, they're the reason T4 gives you another element for your army.
I've seen worse pathing. There are a few irritating reversing fails and vehicles getting hung up on trees (and fuck Pripyat Spring) but otherwise it's generally predictable enough. I thought blaming pathing was one of the main hobbies of DOW 2 players : p
On the RNG, CoH has always been a matter of playing the numbers, rolling with the punches, gameplay experience and creativity over clinical, accurate stat-based microing. Its version of the skill ceiling is very different to, say, Starcraft's.
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@Pewpew,
Soviet mortars, maxims, conscripts with molotovs (especially on snow maps) and ZiS barrage can all soft counter MG42s with proper play. Snipers hard counter them as well. Yeah, tier 1 is *better* against MGs (especially on Langreskaya, I think) but it's not like T2 lacks options.
General curiosity: does a deflecting ram hit write off your T-34? (you still deal 160 damage, I believe)... |
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