Don't ask others for their player card if you're not prepared to show yours. If you want to look at mine, you can use the ladder thumbnail on the right and sort for 3v3 and you'll find me in the top 10 of most factions there.
Furthermore I don't know why you'd base your argument solely on the results of a 2v2 tournament
1. Because Relic does it. This tournament and other tournaments were held to improve the game balance. The developers took a more global view of the USF problem after the terrible game of the USF in the 2х2 anniversary classiс and in December 2018 we got good changes.
The tournament shows the best state of balance, because the best players play there, and you can’t say - L2P.
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I know your answer: but why do i need, vonivan in masters cup bla bla...
one game isn't enough bro, we need more evidence
This is not one game, this is a whole tournament, in almost every match it was. |
As always, axis fans juggle text and start to panic. Why are you so afraid of such discussions? I did not say that E8 should defeat Panther. Please quote these words, if you do not provide them, you are considered liars.
The E8 discussion began with one of your friends saying, “E8 has a superior AT gun.” This is the funniest thing I've heard. Superior gun - which cannot normally penetrate the panther, especially when there is a vet 1.
Did I really want the E8 to defeat the Panther? Where did I say that? I said that it does not have a “superior gun”, and that E8 needs more penetration. Even if the E8 has a penetration, like Jackson, it will not defeat the Panther. Because the Panther has more armor and health. And this is logical. After all, the E8 is a doctrinal tank, it can have a little better gun.
Your argument with Panzer J is not appropriate, because you do not take into account the opposition. I am writing it again.
2. But you did not mention the opposition of these tanks.
E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)
Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)
We see that for E8 the opposition is much stronger. Even if the OKW does not choose a doctrine, it has a panther and KT.
- Therefore, given the opposition, the E8 should have a slightly better penetration, so as not to become quite easy prey for the Panther, especially with enhanced armor.
- Sherman 76 mm is not needed at all.
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M36 Jackson Armor: 130
SU-85 / Stug III Armor: 140
T-34/76 Armor: 150
M4A3 Sherman / Cromwell / Firefly / T-34(85) / 76MM Sherman Armor: 160
PzIV (Ostheer Vet 0) Armor: 180
M4A3E8 Sherman Armor: 215
JagdpanzerIV Armor: 230
PzIV (Ostheer Vet 2 and OKW standard) Armor: 234
Panther (Ostheer vet 0) Armor: 260
Panther (Ostheer vet 2) Armor: 286
Comet Armor: 290
Tiger Armor: 300
etc
It is always worth noting when comparing penetration values of axis vs allied tanks that axis vehicles generally enjoy a substantial armor advantage over their allied counterparts. Without this context, Panzer IVs appear woefully inadequate, when in reality a vet 0 Ostheer PzIV enjoys a higher (0.6875) chance to penetrate a T-34/85 at max range than vice versa (0.6667).
Very good and objective analysis! Thank you for reminding him about the armor of the axis tanks.
However, your words about E8 surprised me a little. I thought it was better. I also thought it was a copy of the panther, just with less armor and health. |
Panther is more expensive than medium tanks. You should not expect Ez8 could defeat Panther. Ez8 could beat any Axis' tanks which were lighter than Panther, inludes P4, P4J, P4 Commander, Stug G, Stug E...
I got it, you only play USF. SOV and UKF do not exist.
Did I really want the E8 to defeat the Panther? Where did I say that? I said that it does not have a “superior gun”, and that E8 needs more penetration. Even if the E8 has a penetration, like Jackson, it will not defeat the Panther. Because the Panther has more armor and health. And this is logical. After all, the E8 is a doctrinal tank, it can have a little better gun. |
Sure, let's completely ignore the fact that early Stukas were only possible because of Spec Ops Doctrine's Command Panther. Which is getting addressed next patch. Having to tech SPHQ to get tanks will make going for early (double) Stuka(s) extremely risky.
"Faction A needs the thing because faction B has the thing" is also not a universal or even valid argument.
Wtf are you talking about? Like do you somehow think that believing (I never commented that stuka first is a bad idea, you are imagining things) that a unit is fine as is and making said unit come later are somehow contradictory statements? What you imagine I said has nothing to do with the issue your contradictions.
Here is a contradiction, your friend claims that early stukas is a risk and a bad idea. Then I said transfer it to T3. You say now that this is a nerf. So can you give a definite answer? This is an advantage, and transfer to T3 will be considered a nerf, or it is not an advantage, and is a risk and not a working meta. |
The Easy 8 definitely needs a buff to it's anti-infantry abilities, it is not in the best state right now. I suggested giving it WP shells to give it more utility. It could alternate between the two the same way regular Shermans alternate between HE and AP.
That's not bad. But this is strange. After all, I can order the Sherman 75 mm + dozer blade. And we get about the same, only E8 will be faster.
E8 needs better penetration. And also I would like an increase in armor with the vet. If the panther, which has better survival, receives such a bonus, then the doctrine tank with less health should be rewarded all the more.
I think the E8 is effective against the infantry as well as the Panther, so there is no problem here.
And the Sherman 76 mm must be forgotten, as the most ridiculous slot in the doctrine. |
Which would be a nerf.
How many contradictions. But you claimed that early stukas is a bad idea and is a risk? Or not? It turns out that this is a very big advantage. The case when a fan okw admitted himself 
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\
Easy8
Penetration near 200
Penetration mid 165
Penetration far 155
Comet
Penetration near 210
Penetration mid 190
Penetration far 170
Panzer H
Penetration near 125
Penetration mid 115
Penetration far 110
T-34/85
Penetration near 160
Penetration mid 140
Penetration far 120
you forgot panther
Penetration near 260
Penetration mid 240
Penetration far 220
The weapon is very good since it also has 75% accuracy on the move.
1. lol. Do you compare E8 with panzer 4? Doctrine tanks? are you serious? 
2. But you did not mention the opposition of these tanks.
E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)
Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)
We see that for E8 the opposition is much stronger. Even if the OKW does not choose a doctrine, it has a panther and KT.
What can this "doctrine superior gun" do against Panther and KT? Especially if the panther with vet1 (with more armor). Dont say such funny things.
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Bra...
powerfull and overpower. You do not distinguish such words?  I did not ask for a nerf. I said this stuka should come out later. As well as other similar units. OR transfer Scott to LT or CPT. |
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