USF Sherman 76 mm - Who needs it?

No, Pak40 has better penetration than M1 57mm and Zis.

i said similar pen to allied at gun axis as a whole and allied as whole, so raketen and 6 pounder too (u conveniently forgot those )

i said similar pen to allied at gun axis as a whole and allied as whole, so raketen and 6 pounder too (u conveniently forgot those )

Didn't Raketen has the exactly penetration as Zis?

M1 57mm has horrible penetration.

Didn't Raketen has the exactly penetration as Zis?

M1 57mm has horrible penetration.

try to use the ammo , it’s balanced around that

Not really Easy8 will beat a OKW easily.

It has equally good armor, more HP, crew, smoke launcher and superior AT gun +3 mgs and the pintle is superior to that of the Panther. The unit is fine for its cost.

I would trade panzer H for a easy clone in heart beat.

"and superior AT gun"

So superior that it hardly penetrates the panther. Especially if the panther has 1 vet with increased armor. Once I attacked a panther with three E8s, and all three shots did not penetrate. The USF has only Jackson, and then it is useless against Ferdinand and Jagdtiger. Just don’t start talking about the flank, because game situations are very different, and in 2x2 mode it’s sometimes impossible to flank. Use hvap? And so, can I stand and calmly shoot at Ferdinand? Jackson does not have enough time and ammunition every time to simply frighten away Ferdinand or Jagdtiger. But that's another topic.
We talked about the 76mm Sherman, and I see many people think so of him as a strange tank. Replacing 76mm with E8 or even M10 would be more reasonable for a mechanized doctrine. No one needs this tank. It is needed by those who had bad tanks, and this is the Soviets . (I'm talking about reality, but they are good in coh2)

By the way. If we say that the T34 was a bad tank, it is almost a crime in Russia. Never say that there.

"and superior AT gun"

...

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Easy8
Penetration near 200
Penetration mid 165
Penetration far 155

Comet
Penetration near 210
Penetration mid 190
Penetration far 170

Panzer H
Penetration near 125
Penetration mid 115
Penetration far 110

T-34/85
Penetration near 160
Penetration mid 140
Penetration far 120

The weapon is very good since it also has 75% accuracy on the move.

\
Easy8
Penetration near 200
Penetration mid 165
Penetration far 155

Comet
Penetration near 210
Penetration mid 190
Penetration far 170

Panzer H
Penetration near 125
Penetration mid 115
Penetration far 110

T-34/85
Penetration near 160
Penetration mid 140
Penetration far 120


you forgot panther

Penetration near 260
Penetration mid 240
Penetration far 220


The weapon is very good since it also has 75% accuracy on the move.

1. lol. Do you compare E8 with panzer 4? Doctrine tanks? are you serious?

2. But you did not mention the opposition of these tanks.

E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)

Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)

We see that for E8 the opposition is much stronger. Even if the OKW does not choose a doctrine, it has a panther and KT.

What can this "doctrine superior gun" do against Panther and KT? Especially if the panther with vet1 (with more armor). Dont say such funny things.

The Easy 8 definitely needs a buff to it's anti-infantry abilities, it is not in the best state right now. I suggested giving it WP shells to give it more utility. It could alternate between the two the same way regular Shermans alternate between HE and AP.

The Easy 8 definitely needs a buff to it's anti-infantry abilities, it is not in the best state right now. I suggested giving it WP shells to give it more utility. It could alternate between the two the same way regular Shermans alternate between HE and AP.

That's not bad. But this is strange. After all, I can order the Sherman 75 mm + dozer blade. And we get about the same, only E8 will be faster.

E8 needs better penetration. And also I would like an increase in armor with the vet. If the panther, which has better survival, receives such a bonus, then the doctrine tank with less health should be rewarded all the more.

I think the E8 is effective against the infantry as well as the Panther, so there is no problem here.

And the Sherman 76 mm must be forgotten, as the most ridiculous slot in the doctrine.

Panther is more expensive than medium tanks. You should not expect Ez8 could defeat Panther. Ez8 could beat any Axis' tanks which were lighter than Panther, inludes P4, P4J, P4 Commander, Stug G, Stug E...

E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)

Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)

I got it, you only play USF. SOV and UKF do not exist.

\
Easy8
Penetration near 200
Penetration mid 165
Penetration far 155

Comet
Penetration near 210
Penetration mid 190
Penetration far 170

Panzer H
Penetration near 125
Penetration mid 115
Penetration far 110

T-34/85
Penetration near 160
Penetration mid 140
Penetration far 120

The weapon is very good since it also has 75% accuracy on the move.

M36 Jackson Armor: 130

SU-85 / Stug III Armor: 140

T-34/76 Armor: 150

M4A3 Sherman / Cromwell / Firefly / T-34(85) / 76MM Sherman Armor: 160

PzIV (Ostheer Vet 0) Armor: 180

M4A3E8 Sherman Armor: 215

JagdpanzerIV Armor: 230

PzIV (Ostheer Vet 2 and OKW standard) Armor: 234

Panther (Ostheer vet 0) Armor: 260

Panther (Ostheer vet 2) Armor: 286

Comet Armor: 290

Tiger Armor: 300
etc

It is always worth noting when comparing penetration values of axis vs allied tanks that axis vehicles generally enjoy a substantial armor advantage over their allied counterparts. Without this context, Panzer IVs appear woefully inadequate, when in reality a vet 0 Ostheer PzIV enjoys a higher (0.6875) chance to penetrate a T-34/85 at max range than vice versa (0.6667).

It should also be said in comparisons, particularly on topics of accuracy, that the Panther (the obvious counterpart to the USF Easy Eight) has much better accuracy for the main gun in general, being 40% (0.025 vs 0.035) more accurate at max range (where it should be said that the panther also enjoys a range advantage, 50 to 40), and 20% more accurate at mid (0.0375 vs 0.045) and near (0.05 to 0.06) range. This is also true for any other medium tanks, including the 76mm Sherman AP shells, as they generally share the same vet 0 accuracy values. (Note that the HVAP Shells on the 76mm Sherman actually appear to have the same accuracy as a Panther shot. More on this later)

It goes without saying that the Panther is also capable of penetrating with any hit that lands on any allied medium tank besides the Comet regardless of distance whereas the opposite is not true for the Easy 8, the 76mm Sherman (with or without HVAP, 220/180/165 with, 120/130/140 without) nor even the Comet.

With regards to received accuracy the 76mm and M4A3E8 Shermans both have a target size of 23, about 5% smaller than the 24 value of the Panther. Note this target size is shared by the regular M4A3 Sherman as well. The Cromwell, Panzer IVs and T-34s all have a marginally smaller target size of 22 (essentially another 5% difference).


So, getting back on topic, these penetration values may look great and all, but they do not constitute even close to the whole story, as the ability of allied medium tanks to penetrate their PzIV counterparts is not much greater and is in many cases worse than their opponent's ability to penetrate them.

Critically, Axis tanks up to and including the Panther also have generally faster reload times, and this is particularly apparent with the M4A3E8, which enjoys the dubious distinction of longest reload time of any medium tank gun.

M4A3E8 Reload Time: 6.6 - 6
Comet Reload Time: 6.4 - 5.9
T-34/85 Reload Time: 6.3 - 6
M4A3 / Cromwell Reload Time: 6 - 5.6
Panther Reload Time: 5.6 - 5.2
Panzer IV Reload Time: 5.7 - 5.3

Here the 76MM Sherman actually displays a considerable advantage over its opponents, as its normal AP shot has a much lower reload time. However, HVAP rounds require a much longer reload.
76MM Reload Time (AP): 4.5 - 4.1
76MM Reload Time (HVAP): 6.1 - 6.1

In general however, looking through the numbers I think the 76mm Sherman is statistically the best tank-fighting medium tank USF has, and it certainly appears better suited than the M4A3E8 Sherman, which, despite having 55 more armor and 80 more HP, will almost always deal less damage in the same amount of time as a Panther OR a 76mm Sherman, no matter what is being fired at.

Against the Panzer IV the superiority of the 76mm Sherman is even more obvious, as, in a short 15-20 second engagement, with regular AP rounds, it will ALWAYS get in at least one extra shot compared to a Panzer IV, M4A3 Sherman, and especially an Easy 8.

I think this thread may actually have the wrong focus, since here, at least, on paper, the M4A3E8 actually appears many times less efficient than a 76MM Sherman, since it cannot beat a Panther (having worse accuracy, worse armor, FAR worse HP, and worse speed and acceleration) and generally cannot beat a Panzer IV any more efficiently than a 76MM Sherman could, and is barely any more effective versus infantry, while also having more a expensive MG upgrade and being more expensive overall.

The only advantage of the Easy Eight is it's higher armor, which does make it more resilient versus the Panzer IV, as well as slightly higher HP, allowing it take one more hit than the normal or 76mm Sherman. The armor is however, as discussed earlier, a moot point versus anything other than the prior mentioned Panzer IVs, and its slowness of movement and firing speed make it a decidedly worse vehicle to use against the Panther, where the 80 extra HP hardly matters considering the Panther has much more anyway.

Panther is more expensive than medium tanks. You should not expect Ez8 could defeat Panther. Ez8 could beat any Axis' tanks which were lighter than Panther, inludes P4, P4J, P4 Commander, Stug G, Stug E...



I got it, you only play USF. SOV and UKF do not exist.

Did I really want the E8 to defeat the Panther? Where did I say that? I said that it does not have a “superior gun”, and that E8 needs more penetration. Even if the E8 has a penetration, like Jackson, it will not defeat the Panther. Because the Panther has more armor and health. And this is logical. After all, the E8 is a doctrinal tank, it can have a little better gun.

M36 Jackson Armor: 130

SU-85 / Stug III Armor: 140

T-34/76 Armor: 150

M4A3 Sherman / Cromwell / Firefly / T-34(85) / 76MM Sherman Armor: 160

PzIV (Ostheer Vet 0) Armor: 180

M4A3E8 Sherman Armor: 215

JagdpanzerIV Armor: 230

PzIV (Ostheer Vet 2 and OKW standard) Armor: 234

Panther (Ostheer vet 0) Armor: 260

Panther (Ostheer vet 2) Armor: 286

Comet Armor: 290

Tiger Armor: 300
etc

It is always worth noting when comparing penetration values of axis vs allied tanks that axis vehicles generally enjoy a substantial armor advantage over their allied counterparts. Without this context, Panzer IVs appear woefully inadequate, when in reality a vet 0 Ostheer PzIV enjoys a higher (0.6875) chance to penetrate a T-34/85 at max range than vice versa (0.6667).

Very good and objective analysis! Thank you for reminding him about the armor of the axis tanks.

However, your words about E8 surprised me a little. I thought it was better. I also thought it was a copy of the panther, just with less armor and health.

It should also be said in comparisons, particularly on topics of accuracy, that the Panther (the obvious counterpart to the USF Easy Eight) has much better accuracy for the main gun

Here lies your mistake. The easy8 is not the counter part of Panther. The Panther is not a main battle tank but a hybrid TD with MGs. It is designed to take Super heavy tank like the IS-2. The Easy8 is the equivalent of the T-34/85 and is not designed to take out KTs (The M36 has that role).

In addition:
Otheer Panther his higher tech requirements and is more expensive
The easy8 has better accuracy on the move

1. lol. Do you compare E8 with panzer 4? Doctrine tanks? are you serious?

Ostheer Panzer H is doctrinal and actually less cost efficient than Easy8. If it was clone of easy8 you would actually see how good easy8 is.

What can this "doctrine superior gun" do against Panther and KT? Especially if the panther with vet1 (with more armor). Dont say such funny things.

SO let me see if if get this right, in you opinion Easy8 should be able to take out the more expensive Panther and KT 1vs1.

I my advice, play a bit like axis so you can get a better perspective of thing.

Did I really want the E8 to defeat the Panther? Where did I say that? I said that it does not have a “superior gun”, and that E8 needs more penetration. Even if the E8 has a penetration, like Jackson, it will not defeat the Panther. Because the Panther has more armor and health. And this is logical. After all, the E8 is a doctrinal tank, it can have a little better gun.

You want both E8 and Mechanized 76mm to be buffed/improved. But the thing is if you buff E8 it will become the USF panther for cheaper. If you buff the 76mm Sherman (IMO it will always be obsolete because of the jackson) it it outclass P4s for the same price.

IMO your question is self explainatory. 76 MM sherman is has the issue of Panzerfusilier. If you make them a call in they are OP if you make them T4 buildable they are obselete or not needed (considering Jackson). I would rahter see a Jumbo 76mm Sherman (Comet-like tank for USF) for the Rifle Company and E8's for mechanized company.

i like when allies fanbois only talk about the armor from german heavy expansive tanks and forgot to say any word about the same or even better armor from allies heavy tanks. Like ISU, IS, churchs, KW serie, Comet etc.

Jp4 and p4 struggle hard vs them.

All allies faction got great TDs which can deal with the high armor from axis tanks...

and axis faction has not one single one combo to delete 250+ fuel tanks in a blink of a eye like allies have (t34 ram and AT plane callins.)

However, your words about E8 surprised me a little. I thought it was better. I also thought it was a copy of the panther, just with less armor and health.

The Easy Eight is a 140 FU premium medium tank. The two closest tanks to it are the OKW Panzer IV and the Soviet T-34/85.

The Easy Eight is really, really good, but it's also in Rifle Company. It's hard to sell diamonds when they're floating in a cesspoll.

The Easy Eight is a 140 FU premium medium tank. The two closest tanks to it are the OKW Panzer IV and the Soviet T-34/85.

The Easy Eight is really, really good, but it's also in Rifle Company. It's hard to sell diamonds when they're floating in a cesspoll.

I would say Soviet T-34/85 and Ostheer PanzerIV J to keep the doctrinal. And is far better than PanzerIV J, I would trade Panzer J for Easy8 any time (more tenacity, better AT gun + moving accuracy).

1. lol. Do you compare E8 with panzer 4? Doctrine tanks? are you serious?

but i though doc unit are supposed to be same or worse to stock one right ? was not that ur excuse against pfusi ^?

now u want doc unit that cost less than panther to be better than panther

The Easy Eight is a 140 FU premium medium tank. The two closest tanks to it are the OKW Panzer IV and the Soviet T-34/85.

The Easy Eight is really, really good, but it's also in Rifle Company. It's hard to sell diamonds when they're floating in a cesspoll.

Lol, the Ez8 is ok for its price, nothing close to "Really really good".

I love the fact this disunion devolved form, "Sherman 76 is not as good as easy 8 " to "easy 8 is bad too", i guess every tank of usf is bad