Does anyone know how much model drops ramp up the DPS of the PPSH? It always seemed to me like it should synergize pretty well but I've never known the specifics.
Damage is increased by about 4,5%. This means that you lose about 12,9% damage if the first model drops instead of the 16,6%. Really nothing huge, but okay. Not enough by far for saving PPSh Penals from being UP.
PPSh Penals just show how important RA, stealth and sprint are to CQC squads. MP40 Volks are the only second CQC unit lacking all three, but at the very least they come with smoke on top of the normal Faust and incendiary that Volks carry and better RA when vetted.
PPSh Penals sit somewhere in the middle.
Too large RA for being good at assaulting, no real utility, no ATG backup so you'd still need PTRS Penals at some point. They even come with a commander that gives you PPSh Guards if you want, that do everything PPSh Penals can do but better.
Oh yeah because we can't nerf Jackson as much as we want let's make it unreliable. That's a way to balance it I guess.
I've asked you multiple times now to explain how the Jackson becomes overly weak, how this delay has not been taken into account yet and to make show that this is indeed a bigger issue.
I've tried to put it into context and quantify the problem at least to the (little) extend that it is possible. You've not answered any of those core questions.
I'll leave it at that, I've made my points. You are absolutely free to disagree, but unless there is a totally new point to be made, there is not much more to say from my side. Whoever reads this can decide on their own whose argumentation they find more convincing.
Jackson's mobility matters in a way because there literally nothing able to cover the Jackson. You're reverting the reality, Jackson's stat aren't the cause but the consequence of serious gaps in USF roaster. If its mobility could have been reduced it would have been done 1 million times by the modding team the same way they reduced its armor to the bare minimum because why not.
So what is the point?
If the balance team deemed the Jacksons alpha strike capabilities as too little, they would have buffed it 1 million times as well?
Jacksons mobility is very high, it can run away if ambushed, it can run to safety if ambushed. If not, it was out of position. This works the same way for every other tank.
The situations you talk about happen, but are also not the stuff that happens every second time. And in even fewer cases, this half second made an actual difference.
From that point onward you can't compare mobility which is a stop gap covering the rest of USF late game issues and Wind up that's here only for nothing.
Exactly that's what I am talking about.
Jackson has already been balanced towards its faction and its own performance. Improve it, and it needs to pay somewhere else.
Why do you assume that the Jackson has been balanced in all its strengths to its faction and environment, but suddenly this wind up oddity that has been there in plain sight since the very beginning has not?
It is indeed shitty that this small delay is not directly communicated to the player. But neither are veterancy bonusses, mobility and penetration for example, and in contrast to the delay that even the dude starting CoH2 for the first time could notice, they are also not directly visible in game. Yet you argue that all those more invisible and sometimes even harder to grasp stats have been taken into account so that the Jackson can make up holes in the USF roster, but wind up has been forgotten.
If wind up is not so important, then why only the Jackson and M10 have them? every tank has the stat available, you just need to add the same value for all of them and suddenly there isn't anymore one tank that fire sometime due to RNG or whatever 2 seconds after the others.
You got the answers what those stats do in literally the first couple of posts in this thread.
Not necessarily, you're stuck with one from many scenarios. There are quantity of map where you need to take risk and close the distance with the Jackson to simply do something, maps where you'll never be able to keep the distance because shot blockers don't allow it, and last but not least you're also facing JTG and Elef which fire faster their opening shot at long range.
Speed and mobility is irrelevant here, the Jackson isn't significantly faster than other tank to make this stat much relevant, and Axis tank get blitz at vet1 and various doctrinal options to take on the Jackson range and mobility.
At the end your answer is that it doesn't matter, well it does as per the video I posted and the nature of the game in which shooting first gives you an edge, even more when your opponent has a guaranteed penetration unlike you.
Now we can argue about skill so it doesn't happen if you do it well but skill would be a more valid argument if in reality who's played better shot first and not the game deciding that yeah maybe you played better but not enough to shot first because wind up for you only.
Mobility matters a lot. The Jackson can withdraw from a fight much more easily than slower vehicles. It can't if Axis absolutely force it, but the Jackson has a decent area it can cover, even if ambushed. This makes it easier to retreat to supporting units and thereby increase the risk for the diving Axis tank. If you want to argue that a half second dela for the shot matters a lot in many scenarios, you can't seriously argue that high mobility suddenly unimportant.
Performance against JT and Ele is also unimportant. With any Allied TD, you eat a shot, fire one back if you can and have to leave. The second shot of the Ele/JT comes late enough to stay half a second longer. I mean, you're not being ambushed by one at close range, so you probably need to bridge only 10 meters before being out of range if your Jackson has been somewhat properly positioned. The point that you're refering to THE two top tier doctrinal TDs to partially support your argument shows what I have been saying in the first place: it's not a big deal.
Now, to repeat myself:
This is not a performance issue that has recently come up or was hard to spot. This is an issue literally every player can see every game a Jackson is bought. It has very likely already priced into the overall cost and performance of the Jackson. The Jackson is good generally and good for the price even with it. It is a property of the Jackson like the slow ROF is a property of the Firefly. If you're aware of this specialty, great. Place your Jackson slightly more conservatively according to the dangerous situations you refer to above, and you'll get even more out of it than other players. If you want to buff the Jackson in some way to compensate the slower alpha shot, something else has to give.
What can be more explicit than -You're always going to shot second, never first.
Now, don't do a strawman, I never said Jackson should win engagement below range 40 or whatever, I said whenever there is a slugfest between tanks at firing range you're never going to shot first with the Jackson unless your opponent need to rotate their turret (and even here that's not always garantie).
In a game where majority engagement last couple of seconds, it matters a lot who shot first.
Again:
The wind up time matters for 3 meters. The distance you have to spot further than other Allied factions is pretty much exactly 3 meters, and now consider this because this is important: against a rushing enemy at top speed. 43/53 meters instead of 40/50. Then the shot of a Jackson will hit around the same point as a shot of the SU85/Firefly/basically any other tank.
That's literally what you're complaining about. Not nothing, but also not huge.
What you are describing as a "slugfest" is being ambushed by the opponent at sub 40 range. You're supposed to lose. If you properly spot for your Jackson up to range 43, you'll not have this issue.
Again, it's not nothing, but also not a huge deal. All I am asking is how you justify how this makes the Jackson really suffer given all it's advantages, especially the high mobility to keep distance.
Would agree if every axis tank had guaranteed penetration.
Jackson has guaranteed penetration at every shot, however that's no true of panthers/tigers/panzers. It's even visible in the video you posted.
That's pretty much non info. Panther won't fight Elefant anyway and Jackson bounces even in the video. But that's not the point of it. The point is the time delay.
So if you don't have 60 range you're supposed to lose? I think mapmakers didn't get your memo.
Don't overexaggerate.
Every Allied TD is absolutely supposed to be vulnerable below range 40, either by slow ROF or not having a turret. This is fully intended.
The only difference the wind up time makes is the very first shot where about half a second delay is introduced. The only situations in which it really matters is a top speed P4 or Panther rushing you (allowing it to move 3-4 meters closer than to any other tank). And an occasional shot you won't get on a retreating enemy tank.
Any pot shots you take at the enemy and in prolonged fights, it does not matter.
That's it.
Can you explain how this makes the Jackson really suffer? It's definitely not a plus, but again: We've had years of balance patches, and the Jackson is an overall good TD. While this should be an issue obvious to everyone, you're the first person complaining about this years after the release of USF. You need to make a really strong case here.
Actually from the most usual list of tank/tank destroyers, the M36 and M10 are the only two suffering from it.
The Panther is also an example, but you need to prove how they are suffering from it.
The M36 is a good TD, increasing its ROF would not be a great idea. You can obviously have a different opinion, but then provide a reasoning for it. The wind up increasing the time for the first shot is indeed one point, but to be honest I assume that the unit has been balanced around that after 4 years of community patches. The Jackson has very good offensive power, at range 60 you'll get the first shot regardless and at lower ranges the Jackson is supposed to lose.
There surely are some cases in between where the wind up time actually makes a difference, but I don't see a reason why those should be hugely problematic.
Iirc, the balance team has also increased the reload veterancy bonus slightly to make up for the fact that a larger part of the cycle is made up by wind times after this has been pointed out to them.
Since we agree that it is linear SVT are linear from 6 to 35 and we also agree that weapon that are good at all ranges are not good game design we can move on.
Linearity by itself is not an issue. LMGs also have a roughly linear DPS plot, and so do many other weapons. What is important is, that there is a noticable change in DPS at different ranges.
Anyway, the Vickers K does not suffer that problem. As we found out in another thread, it does not hold up to what was promised/intended. In the special weapons regiment there are not that many squads available to which it would offer a real benefit compared to the stock Bren.
I unfortunately don't think that there will be a patch fixing this. It is even more unfortunate that this happens to a faction that only has 9 commanders from the get to and is generally a bit lackluster to play.
LOL it's pretty funny that not only is USF a much harder faction than OKW or OST due primarily to it's idiotic tech tree, but it also suffers from equally idiotic game mechanics. The AT rifle grenade taking forever to deploy, the dumb weapon rack mechanics, and now the wind up.
Wind up/down is nothing special to USF, just saying...
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