I can confirm the 9 repair speed of the OKW truck.
I am not sure about CE/Pioneer repair speeds.
This should be per entity:
1,6 standard speed
+0.3 for the sweeper upgrade
and *1.625 for vet2. I don't know if this is applied before or after the sweeper bonus.
For the squad, this means a speed of 6,4/7,6 depending if you have a sweeper or not. So unless you have a vetted squad, the truck should be quicker.
I the main advantage of the truck for me is that it is super low micro. Just drive the vehicle back and forget about it. The search radius is large enough that you can only use the minimap for it.
I fully agree that it should be in there, my point is that sight range is the least of CoH2's problems because unlike almost all other stats, you actually can see it directly.
I assume Relic didn't for one out of lazyness, second maybe because the game reads it in from a text file that would need manual updating and create a lot of outdated and inaccurate text strings.
I do hope that CoH3 comes with an encyclopedia of some sort or a unit stats screen that you can bring up during the game.
The hypocrisy from the balance team also doesn't help either. They removed damage reduction from Rangers and stated that the reason for the removal was that the information wasn't apparent to players, yet turn around and give Pioneers extra sight.
I was dead sure you're gonna cite Grenadier's vet3, I am quite surprised.
You do realize that the pioneer sight buff dates back to 2015 and there was no balance team back then?
Anyway, the close camera does not make sight differences hugely apparent, but on the other hand there are few stats that could be communicated more obviously than sight range without using a number or table. If the players are able to pick up any stat without playing a ton of matches, sight range is definitely among them.
The T-70 having -1 in its Range Profile basically makes it use the Near Accuracy most if not all of the time.
When testing the Stuart with -1 in its Range Profile being the only modifier changed suddenly the Stuart is on T-70 levels. Like night and day difference.
So the conclusion here is that the Stuart suffers greatly from essentially always being at FAR range due to its shite Range profile while the T-70 is almost always at Near Range thus making it significantly more potent due to the large increase in accuracy between Near and Far.
I just checked the attribute editor again. The descriptions are not always true, but most of the time.
It literally says "If set to -1, this value will use the minimum range of the weapon as the near range instead." for the near value and "...maximum range..." for the far value.
If you put out claims like that, please provide some real data.
Only change here is that I set accuracy to 100%. No change to scatter or anything else.
Saying that accuracy does not matter is simply false. Company of Heroes 2 has different projectile types within the modding tools and you can individually customize or create your own behavior for projectiles such as creating a projectile that causes Rear Armor hits regardless of where you shoot at an enemy vehicle.
The chance to hit between any entities of this game is defined as accuracy*target_size. As others pointed out, vehicles have very low accuracy, but hit each other because of their huge target size. Their chance to hit any infantry model is usually far below 5%. So yes, my sentence of saying accuracy does not matter is indeed an oversimplification, but in realistically only about 3-4% of all cases at worst. The vast majority of vehicle vs infantry shots (>95% as others pointed out) will be scatter, the effectiveness of which is determined by the AoE and scatter values of the gun. You could see this by checking TDs: They have higher accuracy than any other tank, yet their AI performance is pretty shitty. Because accuracy does not (really) matter, and that is what I said.
Scatter is mostly used to define the parameters around AOE (Area of Effect) and how accurate those AOE shots are within the initial shot.
I am not fully sure if I understand you correctly here. I think I do and I think you're saying the right thing, I'll post this anyway just to avoid any confusion down the line:
Scatter has nothing directly to do with AoE. The way this game works is the following:
First, a direct shot is calculated by the formula above. If this fails, the shot will randomly scatter depending on the gun values. I made a detailed post about how this works previously. Around the new impact, AoE is applied. This AoE can be huge like in the case of the ST or very small in the case of TDs. That's why TDs are shitty at AI, despite having good accuracy, despite having fairly normal scatter values: Because their chance to actually apply damage to a model is tiny, because their AoE is tiny.
I don't really get what you mean by the "initial shot". All shots work the same, neglecting some buggier units like casemates where the initial shot is indeed less accurate.
Most vehicles are designed around this as a solution to problems involved with projectiles hitting terrain such as the Ostwind back in the day if anyone remembers that. Rather than take the time to actually fix projectile animations and terrain issues (many vehicles have different projectiles so they would have had to have dozens of projectiles to fix) Relic took the lazy way out and just decided for the projectiles to hit the ground and have it do AOE damage as their band aid solution to the problem since COH 2 is essentially a mod of COH 1 and they couldn't be bothered to put in an ounce of effort into the game compared to COH1.
Not sure about earlier patches of the Ostwind, but all AI vehicles that shoot projectiles work like this: They need good AoE. Technically, you could just give them higher accuracy and worse AoE and get similar DPS, but obviously this needs to be done depending on the calibre: A normal tank not really doing any AoE would just look weird. Those tanks had AoE in real life, so the game needs to model it like that. The Ostwind has a 3,7 cm canon. Those canons had fragmentation shots, modeling them like an MG would be weird.
Relic has indeed a lot of bandaids for terrain collision issues, but giving AoE to weapons is not one of them. Letting projectiles phase through objects definitely is, though.
This is not an issue for infantry as the bullets have a universal projectile and they only had to make sure that worked as intended as they could just "band aid" the rest of the projectiles in the game.
I don't know what this is supposed to mean.
To my knowledge, small arms are not even modeled as a projectile. The tracers on screen is just visual goodies. Damage is applied instantly, these work like "hit scan" weapons in shooters. MGs on vehicles use the same hit scan mechanic.
Now back to the Stuart. The Stuart uses the same projectile as the T-70. In fact both are almost exact clones with some slight differences.
Stuart AOE = 1.75
T-70 AOE = 2
Panzer IV = 2.5
Tiger = 4.0
When testing With the same Scatter Values as the T-70 the Stuart is still rather bad.
Testing with with the same AOE as the T-70 showed similar results
It took me a while to figure out where you got those values from. But this is not how it works, really. You've just picked the AoE radius, which is literally only one out of many stats to determine the overall AoE damage. It is true that units with large AoE ranges are obviously supposed to be better at AoE, but it does really not say anything by itself, because it does not tell how much damage is applied at that range or how the AoE curve looks like at lower ranges.
I have no idea where you make up claims like "It is around 2 AOE or above when you start seeing good Anti-Infantry performance". That's absolutely subjective. If you really want to criticize me above for neglecting a ~3% chance to hit infantry in an accuracy roll, you can't just put out a generalized statement like that. We've seen multiple units being buffed because their gun AoE was not good enough despite exceeding an "AOE of 2". There's so many factors playing into this.
E.g. these are the scatter area values and AoE values for both tanks:
MG damage comes on top of that. The T70 is better in AI because it less scatter area, a more reliable chance to hit and can actually chase way better. Needless to say it also fires quicker.
AoE is debatable. I'd say it is overall better, although we can semi-regularly see the Stuart wipe 2-3 models on a clumped squad due to the high near AoE damage.
The T-70 having -1 in its Range Profile basically makes it use the Near Accuracy most if not all of the time.
When testing the Stuart with -1 in its Range Profile being the only modifier changed suddenly the Stuart is on T-70 levels. Like night and day difference.
So the conclusion here is that the Stuart suffers greatly from essentially always being at FAR range due to its shite Range profile while the T-70 is almost always at Near Range thus making it significantly more potent due to the large increase in accuracy between Near and Far.
What is T70 level? What did you test exactly? And how?
I somehow doubt what you say. I have seen the T70 miss shots at other vehicles while being static, although that should barely be the case according to what you wrote. All other stat sites also report the stats differently.
^ then why ONLY Staurt got 30 range far instead of 40 ?.
I assume because Relic.
The previous engine shot ability was very close range. I assume they wanted to make the Stuart a rather close ranged tank for some reason, and the profile is just one thing that survived.
The Stuart has the main gun and its hull fired machine gun. The issue is here is that the Far Range for the main gun is set to 30 while it has a maximum range of 40. From 30-40 it has severe accuracy penalties making the main gun useless vs anything that isn't a vehicle (vehicles have much larger target sizes allowing the main gun to actually hit something)
I'll put some clarification here:
The Stuart has indeed a very unique and also odd main gun profile, but what you state above is partially wrong.
There is no accuracy penalty above far range. The accuracy will stay at the far accuracy, which is 0.025 for the Stuart. The Stuart has overall lower accuracy at mid to long range, this is due to the unique profile. But not due to some additiinal penalty. Accuracy does not matter against infantry at any range, not even point blank. The statement saying the gun was bad at 30+ meters against 'anything that isn't a vehicle' due to the low accuracy does not make sense. Scatter is what really matters against infantry at all ranges.
Second correction, the -1 to my knowledge for the T70 does not mean that no calvulation will be done, but that the values will be infered from the min and max range. It is basically the same as stating the normal 0-20-40 profile.
On paper yes, ST AOE technically much better, but the main problem is, even considering that it has better chances at wiping retreating units, ST still need much more pre-positioning to be able to roll in, unload and roll out.
The main mode for both units is to already align with their target before moving into the fight, either because you have to (ST) or because you don't want to waste another 1-2 seconds with turret rotation (AVRE). The ST has some downsides and feels more clunky, but my point was not a general comparison of the usefulness of the two units, my point was really specifically to your point saying that the long AoE damage does not matter.
Not to mention that, support weapons like AT guns cant soft-retreat from AVRE aswell, unless pre-spotted and retreating support weapons have very big chance to be wiped as well. Also, unless its volks\PFs\Ostts all squad models will be in kill radius of the AVRE anyway.
Objectively ST AOE provides better blob control, but its still imo very debatable if its bigger AOE actually that much powerful and impactful.
But if we only speak about scenario where ST rolled in, successfully shot and rolled out, ignoring everything what comes before it, then yes its AOE provides much more.
I don't know about ATG and MG squad spacing, but normal infantry squads have models that are easily 3-4 meters from the center. So even if the attacker perfectly aims at the center of the squad, moving 3-4 meters will make sure that at least the squad as a whole survives for both vehicles.
That's why I am saying that the longer range AoE of the ST actually matters. Because many squads don't consist of 100% healthy members. The ST can consistently hit all members of a squad, dealing 44 damage as a minimum (unless my info is wrong). If only 2 members survive after the shot, the outcome is heavily different: Against the AVRE, they will likely get not damaged at all. So even if they were pre-damaged with ~20 damage each, they still retreat with the remaining 120 in total and are decently hard to kill by the supporting infantry. Against the ST, even if they were full health before, their total health will amount to 72 when full health or 32 if already damaged. That's way easier to wipe.
Now, the prime targets of both are not main line infantry but ATGs and MGs, and I will neglect all the tiny differences for several factions here. Both of these are definitely easier to hit, nevertheless it is still possible to frequently dodge the deadly zone of both the AVRE and ST. But the AVRE is almost literally a coin toss: Either you kill a model, or it does not get damaged. There is almost nothing in between. A dodging model does not get damaged, and if that model has decent HP the squad might make it out. The ST helps a lot, because even dodging the central blast will bring the HP heavily down.
Just to make it clear: I don't am not debating if one unit is better than the other, I am debating your point claiming that the far AoE did not matter.
It indeed did not matter if there was no support on the field, but it matters a lot if there is even only 1 infantry squad supporting the push.
Dont Penals and Volks have the same RA when vetted(according to march 2021 patch notes), both come out to a target size of .77.
Cost from 300 to 290
Reinforce time from 5.4 to 4.5
Veterancy 3 weapon accuracy from +30% to +20%
Veterancy 2 Received accuracy from -15% to -23%
You're actually right on this one. I just quickly looked it up on serealia and the site was not updated for the Penal change. My bad.
Difference being ST has bigger AOE (which hardly means anything since you still need direct hits to wipe) for the cost of manual reaload and lack of turret. AVRE has smaller AOE as a price for having turret and auto-reload.
Just picking out this one point:
The far AoE range is super strong.
The AVRE forces you to predict the retreat path almost perfectly, if a model is only a tiny bit outside of the 8 meter radius it does not get damaged at all. The ST allows for way worse path prediction. It kills a model with half 44 HP up to 14 meters radius. So even if you misjudged the retreat path or timing, you have a good chance of wiping the squad if it has been damaged before by small arms fire, or the other way around: If you have a squad nearby, it this one has a good chance of killing off the remaining model(s).
In team games this is basically always the case since the unit density is super high. No ST/AVRE operates on its own.
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