Scotts have to operate closer to the frontline compared to basically any other vehicular arty, therefore exposing themselves to danger more.+They only work really well against a static playstyle(OST with 2xMG42,2xPAK40, mortar) and it's always these people that complain about the scott.
If the self-smoke ability is to be removed from as a insignificant in the grand scale of thing unit like the Scott, then self-smoke should be removed from all vehicles that can use them, P4s, 222s, Panthers and Tigers shouldn't have a free get out of jail card considering how much impact they can have on the game.
That's because in order to kill it, you often have to chase the scott back to base on most maps.
Lets take a look, it dies from 3 shots, it is very fast and has rather small target size. If you consider the fact that chasing means shooting on the move in COH2, the amount of shots to kill a Scott can easily go up to 5. You add smoke and you have a cancer recipe, because good luck punishing that. Honestly, you need to be a have a severe acute case of "brain fart" to lose a Scott |
PLS stop laying (once more)about what I have posted because I did not post that the 170 CE are a better combat units than 240 conscripts.
They are better at fighting than conscripts, same dps better target size.
So for the cheapest engineer units being as better than their mainline of their faction yes they are a "decent unit".
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Regardless if USF is underperforming in teamgames or not, Scotts should really use a nerf, but not necessary in dps.
Imo proposed by many, including Duffman, self smoke removal is a must. On top of it, maybe 10..15% accel nerf would be good as well. |
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Vipper, COH2 is not SC2. You don't recruit entities, you recruit squads. Also COH2 has veterancy and squads have various of abilities (e.g. cons' have combat abilities, while CE's abilities aimed at utility). The other thing that differentiates COH2 from SC2, is that you rarely trade units in COH2. Hannibal perfectly pointed out how that game design decision influences the gameplay:
You're ignoring the fact that CE have to retreat after losing about two models. This means your army can only lose half their strength until you're incapable. If you retreat Cons the same way, you have to lose 67% of your army until you are pushed off.
BTW Cons at vet 1 have identical RA to vet0 CEs.
If you are asking, which is a better combat unit - 4 vet 0 cons with 1.09 RA or vet0 CEs with 1 RA, my answer would be Cons, because cons have Oorah, AT nade and molly. |
Combat engineers can work as your mainline because they cost absurdly cheap and have a flamethrower upgrade, but even without it you can hold your ground
they have 2 models less, but you make 7 to 8 squads at the very least, and you stack multiple of them anywhere you are supposed to fight. Fun tactic
CEs are not cost effective en masse. They only work when paired with cons. Once OST gets mg42s on grens and the guy gets few of those squads, this engie strat becomes too expensive.
Explanation:
min RA for 4 men CEs is 0.77
min RA for 6 men Cons is 0.71 + you can get a 7men upgrade that improves DPS in cover and reduces reinforcement cost by 2 MP
4 men close-mid range squad even with 0.77 RA is pretty easy to lose, especially in mid game. You just focus fire the unit with few squads for few seconds and it is gone, or retreating heavy loses.
I get the 2 engie start, but spam is pretty ineffective. |
Its indeed not bad. But as a squad cons are a better unit. Combined with flamer ce's they get really strong, they perfect synergy or combined arms in the early to mid game imo.
That's just stats manipulation from the user. In reality cons have +50% more models, several combat abilities (molly, oorah and at-nade) and much better scaling. Both naked CEs and REs on their own have pretty poor combat performance and won't hold their own vs any axis squad in the game.
Also in practice CEs, pios and REs have a very high chance of dying when match gets heated, because of 4 models and rather poor RA regardless of vet. This makes Engineers obsolete once opponent has vehicles and elite infantry, or decent amount of properly vetted and equipped mainline infantry. That's why you rarely see flamer on new engies past 15+ minutes, since you'd rather upgrade your infantry, lay mines and use those munies on abilities. |
Weak because of what? 4 USF in 4v4 is for sure much weaker then say 4 soviets in 4v4, but it doesnt mean that USF is weak = trash.
I think I summed up my thoughts about USF in this comment
Big issues of USF in terms of team games are:
1) expensive infantry that has close-mid operating range
2) map design that mostly promotes long range engagements. This design favors HMGs and long range infantry like grens, guards, obers etc.
You add (1) and (2) together, add the fact that grens are long range + all aggression can be easily diffused by HMG42. Also the fact that you need different tech for HMG and AT gun, only adds salt to the wound.
This pretty much leads to 1 good USF doctrine - Airborne. Paths to spot an HMG, lmg paras to counter grens, and AT/HMG drop to offset teching problems.
If you take out from the roster/nerf to the ground Airborne, the winrate across all teamgames will drop for USF. Pretty sure about that.
the same way its generally harder to play as axis in 1v1
There is nothing hard about playing OST in 1v1. OKW can be tricky, that I agree, but the same could be said about USF as well. |
Imo, from 1vs1 perpective but that's probably true on team game, the issue isn't the grenadier by itself but a combination of at least 3 factors that put together made early game Ostheer >>> Usf.
Big issues of USF in terms of team games are:
1) expensive infantry that has close-mid operating range
2) map design that mostly promotes long range engagements. just design favors HMGs and long range infatnry like grens, guards, obers etc.
You add (1) and (2) together, add the fact that grens are long range + all aggression can be easily diffused by HMG42. Also the fact that you need different tech for HMG and AT gun, only adds salt to the wound.
This pretty much leads to 1 good USF doctrine - Airborne. Paths to spot an HMG, lmg paras to counter grens, and AT/HMG drop to offset teching problems. |
Well more like, poor people selecting USF, going into random 3v3/4v4 and then ranting that it is the worst faction.
If there is no factions weaker then the mentioned faction in particular game mode, then it is the weakest by the definition. |
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Imo the issue is that there are good reasons (besides repair and sweeping) to build other engies (except for sturms, but they are pretty good on their own) and almost none to build REs. Giving them zooks is the only use of them, besides sweeping and axillary repairs. |
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