Profile of Kolaris

What about (along with 100% CS) we decrease the recloak time but increase the multiplier.

So 1 shot is extremely difficult to get a countersnipe off, but successive shots makes it easier than it is now.

This would also mean that Snipers would be less of a self-counter on their own, they would need some kind of support to reveal the enemy Sniper. This would also be a "nerf" to Recon Run, since the Sniper would recloak very fast, whereas actual units would stay in range to keep the Sniper revealed longer.

I'm looking at Aimstrong's example here:

In the situation you mentioned there will be downsides for him to go those two snipers, allowing me to utilize my troops differently according to his unit composition. Negative zeal would help solve the problem, either by helping with my CS chance or by forcing him to spread his snipers, which gives me an advantage in not being countersniped back. Alternatively, with 100% hit, I would shoot his, he would shoot mine and he would still be one sniper ahead. Also, I can't speak for all, but I personally always made a point out of always trying to make sure my opponent wouldn't be able to shoot back after a countersnipe, by waiting till he had fired.

Where I wouldn't expect DevM to be able to get a CS off with his 2nd sniper on the very first shot that Aimstrong makes. But if he feels that it's likely, I think this change would help with that.

EDIT: We could also increase the time Sniper's recloak when revealed by units separately from recloak after shots, but then you run into the Recon Run problem again.

Going BARs when you know the WM player had some fuel is a risk. Nades are a risk. Pursuing a low hp AC into prime Teller spots is a risk. T1 > T4 is a risk.

A 50% CS chance is not fucking risk.

So first it's "US are fucked by 100% CS against Grenspam + 1 Sniper" and now it's "US are OP with 100% CS and Sniper Spam"?

And this is without mentioning the ramifications it will have with abilities like strafing run, bike/jeep drive by etc.

Those are accounted for already

Think back to how sniper wars actually played out on high levels. Here, the game evolved around not necessarily getting the countersnipe, but instead of killing more troops with your sniper than his. This meant that it became a dance of death, trying to rack up as many kills as possible without being countersniped, using screening troops, los, range... It was micro intensive and rewarded active play.

With this change, we will instead have one player wait for his opponent to have the guts and courage to actually USE his unit, only for the passive player to be rewarded with a guaranteed hit...

Why has any of that changed? Screening, shotblockers, range, they're all just as important if not more. This isn't redefining the mechanics of counter-sniping, only changing the odds. You trade kills in exactly the same situations you do now - when you can account for the exact position of the enemies Sniper but don't have a CS angle on him. Then you settle for a kill on a less valuable target and reposition for the next dance.

"But you can't even take the first shot for fear of being counter-sniped!"

If you told me that you seriously expected your opponent had a shot on you, but took the shot anyway hoping the 50% miss chance would bail you out, you deserved to lose your Sniper. You got outplayed but lost nothing because of one diceroll. Your opponent did precisely what he should have done and was rewarded with nothing.

I have to ask: Why this fixation on snipers, making them seem like a big problem that requires a redesign of the game mechanics? I can understand wanting to solve the problems of sniperspam... but instead you make such drastic changes that affect snipers in their entirety. Why make such a drastic change that, to me, reeks of wanting to "balance" the game in favor of your own playstyles?

This isn't reinventing the wheel, it's adjusting one outlying RNG that had too much impact on the outcome of the game. It has nothing to do with playstyle, if you really feel that's the motivation then please question these players as well:

12azor-
Snipers are so critical in the current meta-game and have been for such a long time that counter-sniping and even revealing the fact you've built a counter-sniper is absolutely game-changing and can have a massive impact on the game at any stage.

Snipers should have a 100% chance to hit an enemy Sniper regardless of movement and the only reason they should ever miss is from an accuracy modifier on retreat.
...
I think the Sniper thing is such a massive issue in terms of the meta-game that it should be changed and the 5% thing is a feature and critical hits are random but rarely game-changing in the same way counter-sniping almost always is.

0mar-
Considering how quickly a bullshit dice roll can change the game when it comes to sniper vs sniper battles (basically a 680 manpower swing), sniper vs sniper needs to be 100%.

Using a sniper aggressively should come with a risk, that is, you get one-shotted by his sniper. That's the whole point of counter-sniping. However, when you introduce dice rolls, what often happens is that the counter-sniper misses his shot and now the opponent knows (or worse, kills your sniper) you have a sniper and can act accordingly. This happens disproportionately to the WM sniper.

Sepha -
While i'm hesitant to change something that's stayed the same way for so long, the only thing i'd change is making accuracy 100% between snipers. But I would also make this the same change for a moving sniper, or not change the moving accuracy at all. Why should anyone have such a large bonus simply by moving their snipers around? It would be impossible to counter snipe.

SayNoToStim -
100% sniper vs sniper regardless of situation would be my opinion.

fatebomb -
100 % hits except on retreats

Kashll -
Agreed, 100% except retreats. A sniper versus sniper battle has too much of a manpower swing to leave anythign up to chance (it can decide an entire game).

Budwise -
In CoHO it is 100% except during retreat or at very close range and its wonderful. Sniper v Sniper should be about micro, not luck. Often an entire game can be decided by a counter snipe.

Seb -
Well, I think it is a lot more interesting to reward knowing where and when to use the sniper carefuly, and being able to read the other player to know when he will try to counter snipe (lack of 400 manpower that early in the game for us is rather easy to spot as wm in your example).

To be clear I'm not attached to the current implementation, if it doesn't work it doesn't work (though no one has tested it yet). I'm only in favor of 100% CS in some form, to remove an outlying RNG element that trumped skill and micro on too many occasions. Which sounded right up the alley of this mod.

For instance, if units that are shot by a sniper are given a temporary defense against sniper fire (in the form of reduced received accuracy) that lasts, say, the reload time of the sniper rifle, then the barrage of sniper blob fire on a single unit would have to be staggered for maximum efficiency. (I guess simulating the squad getting hit moving and acting under the realization there is now a sniper shooting them.) Also, attack moving a sniper blob at charging squads to spread out the shots usually works out poorly for the snipers' survival.

As long as it is short enough to never affect a single sniper, it would promote more surgical single sniper strikes, and reduce the impact of the first barrage of a sniper blobs fire. (The whole point and click unit deletion thing.)

This has been my favorite solution to mass-Snipers but it's very difficult to implement. But perhaps not impossible.

EDIT: Trying to figure out how to implement it and came upon something that would be pretty easy (though I don't like it quite as much): Upon firing a Sniper Rifle, all allied camouflaged units in X radius of the Sniper are revealed for X seconds.

It's the opposite idea though, instead of staggering your mass Snipers you'd want to use them to alpha strike, which I don't want to encourage.

The problem I have with upkeep is that it encourages using Snipers freely to get back the MP you're losing passively, rather than controlled/carefully.