It's nice to be able to check on the other player, although Tommy found looking through the grayscale fog really annoying.
Personally when this option is available (DoW2, SC2) I use it over FoW off. I still think shared LoS is the best option for casters, but I think that's beyond our capabilities. But maybe Kiraye can come up with something. I know nothing about SCaR.
EDIT: Probably should have taken a shot on Langres or Angoville. Semois is dark to begin with and the FoW magnifies it.
I'm with you as far as a strong WM T1 has shifted the BAR/M8 choice more in favor of BARs, which can translate to T3 being more attractive.
I don't agree that a player who goes T2 heavy will elect to go T4 over T3, because you'd rather have T3 + Vet 2 Grens than T4 + Vet 0 Grens. You see T2 > T4 when the WM player gets to sit in T2 for 15-20 minutes, which usually means the game isn't that close.
I think 50% rather than 25% on the HT/StuG MGs, along with 6 pop cap StuGs (which plays into Guderians point about how easy they are to spam) is the best place to start.
Still not convinced which way the mod should go, but I'll try to restart discussion with a potential changelog for a new version.
Bug fixes for 2.3:
- Snipers no longer fire twice rapidly when reloading their weapon
- Casualties no longer detect camouflaged units
- Inspired Assault now works properly on MG42s and Mortars, and does not apply penalties to Paks or Nebels
Possible changes to add in 2.3:
- Reduced the supression of the mg42_vehicle weapon (Halftrack, Stug) by 50% (it still does double the supression and 20% more damage than the PIV mg42. Not nerfed enough?)
- Reduced Nebelwerfer movement speed from 2.75 to 2
- Removed the Puma's 5% chance to kill infantry targets at high health
Possible changes to remove in 2.3:
- Return WM T4 costs to vanilla
- Return FtFL to vanilla
- Return Inspired Assault to vanilla (outside above bugfix)
The reason the Puma is so inconsistent is because of its accuracy. 50%. You can run up a lot of hits in a row, or a lot of misses. If we really wanted to address it, we should consider increasing its accuracy but lowering its damage.
I'm trying to cut out some of the filler, changes that sound good but have very little impact. The Nebel change above might fall under that category, but it sounds really good on paper so it's worth a try.
I think we're starting to veer too far off course imo. Just fix whats broken in the OF factions now instead of totally revamping vanilla factions.
Lets be honest, EliteMod and other COH mods will never really go anywhere. The best we could ever hope for is a polished balance patch that we can hand over to Relic and beg pretty please for them to do one last balance patch to fix sniperspam, stags, etc. The more you guys fuck with it and do shit that isnt needed the less likely this will ever happen and the more likely that all your time is wasted.
It's a tough spot since either you stay a hair's breadth away from vanilla and hope it gets "official" use, but it's so similar to vanilla few people have an incentive to play it
Or you add good but unnecessary changes in the hopes of garnering interest
To be honest I'm in favor of the former like you are Budwise, but I felt the mod was already heading towards the latter. If that's what Tommy and the community wanted I had no problem with that.
If we were taking the "balance patch" approach, I think the only real impactful and necessary changes so far are:
1. Rifle Reinforce
2. Sniper anti-spam aura
3. Throw in the bug fixes and gameplay improvements for good measure
At which point you'd move on to OF, likely keeping the # of changes down and consigning them to being UP in 1v1 and ok in 2v2.
Is there a way to change the experience points gained based on the veterancy of the unit killed? I think that would be much fairer, but don't know if it is possible to mod. That would even make it worthwhile to try and kill vetted Wehr infantry with riflemen instead of snipers seeming to be the only reasonable counter.
This is something I'd campaigned for for a looong time, and yes it's possible. I had suggested a comprehensive mechanic that increased the XP of all vet units of all factions by 10/20/30%, but that's overboard.
It makes sense to me that the reward for killing a unit correspond to the difficulty of killing it. Obviously, since Grens are worth more XP than Volks, and KCH more than Grens.
Vet 2 means you're losing so few models that rewarding Rifles that actually do kill Grens is important.
Current WM XP Values:
1 Volks
2 Grens
2.5 Stormtroopers
4 KCH
What about this:
1 Volks
2 Grens & Stormtroopers
2.5 Vet 2 Grens and Vet 2 Stormtroopers
3 KCH
The other thing I wanted to mention was maps. They're fair game imo...I can make simple changes, or we could enlist more talented mappers.
Balance is to the point that maps play the largest factor, and I'd love to hear opinions on who was the advantage from which starting positions, and if there are small changes that we could do to improve map balance.
Going to restart discussion here with some thoughts about changes I'm unsure of.
Cheaper WM T4...I think it's unused only because of how dominant T3 is. I'm not sure if lower costs will help (or if they'll be too helpful in T1 > T4 strats) since you're still competing with a robust T3.
Inspired Assault...it's a tricky ability, and Terror is really strong even with no one using it whatsoever. Do we want to see it keep its drawbacks, or become more of an "any time it's ready ability" like FtF? I'm definitely in favor of the former. I think that fixing its effects on MGs, Mortars, Paks, and Nebels is a good place to start, but I don't know about lowering the Munitions cost.
I still think Snipers need addressing in some way: see Symbiosis vs Aimstrong game 2.
I'm thinking Off-Map artillery may need addressing in some way: see Purlictor vs Symbiosis game 1.
CoH is random and that shouldn't be changed. But everyone here has years of experience with the game, and I think trimming down some of the RNG outliers fits in with the idea of an Elite Mod, just like lowering autocover.
With Tommy and FatalSaint moving on to bigger and better things, the EliteMod is left in a bit of a limbo. Tommy gave the go-ahead for others to keep it updated, and I'm jumping in to do just that. After the outstanding games of the TFN Elite Mod Tournament I don't see anything obvious that needs adjusting. This update is aimed at squashing bugs in existing changes and letting the community know that Elite Mod can continue if we want it to.
I've removed some loose and unnecessary files to lower the file size, you should delete the existing Elite Mod folder from your Company of Heroes directory.
I'm thinking I'll go ahead and update the mod, mostly to show that it's still alive. Plan to:
- Update the changelog (outdated in a few places)
- Add the Observer maps TFN used for the finals, as well as my FoW tweak (credit will go to MrLate for the maps)
- Fix a few intended changes that weren't implemented correctly
Why do people think Terror was selected almost unanimously? Was it because Halftracks were more attractive than Medbunkers? Or was that more of a result of going Terror than a cause for it?
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