Profile of distrofio

We can then also nerf panther rate of fire and accuracy and buff its penetration, so it isn't counter-it-all tanks as well, but a heavy tank/high armor counter, StuG and JP4 will see more use, everyone will be happy!

This is bait.

Hey Kat do you really think Panthers are a counter at all? What is it supposed to counter then? The allied players ego? Because all the tanks it counters are far cheaper that Panthers. That means below 100% cost efficiency investment. But Anything that counters Panthers is cheaper than it.

At least Jackson's are known counters because they punch above their weight cost wise and also discourage any medium maneuver, not like su85s to make it point as clear as I can.

Every faction has a muni dump for their core infantry, which are basically a necessity. USF and Ost are the most expensive at 60 ammo, but everything Ost can spend ammo on besides that is completely optional.

I beg to differ here. First of all, what you mean by "besides that". Seriously. Gren/Riflemen 1v1 matchup dont end up well for grens (use the excuse of their cost or whatever, its always just excuses) unless they land a good rifle nade, before riflemen close up. Only the suspicion of a possible HMG42 hiding ready to support the gren squad can restrain riflemen to rush in. (That means 500MP only to "stop" a 280MP squad)

Munition dump is a rather bad term, if you ask me. Weapon Upgrades are either to stay competitive or to adapt. USF has bars/zooks for that exact prupose and they are 1 time pay only. OST weapon upgrades are specific and not optional and everyone here knows that.

Besides that all other muni investment are not optional, they are the game itself. Wanna go for mines? Munition. Need arty off map? Munition. TWP, HVAP, flares, incendiary rounds, white phosphorus? Munition! They all add complexity to each matchup, they turn the tides in matches and most of them are not optional at all.

The munition starvation has to do more with the broad amount of posibilities you can use your munition and how important those options are to succed in the game. Waiting to have 60 mun to slap a bar on riflemen is not. What i mean is utility >>> firepower when it counts on munitions investmenst.

They don't need sidetech for nades, so they can yeet them whenever.

Well, glad you mention it but it has NOTHING to do with munition economy. If you are so discomfort with paying a side tech, then you should be OK with grens able to choose Pshreks/LMG42/G43 combinations freely.

Pgren shrek upgrade is very situational as pgrens are insane without it

Pgren not investin muni is not a good example of what investing munition is, get it? Its also a T2 stock elite infantry. In case you forgot to mention it.

, incendiary rounds are also incredibly situational as no light vehicle that can get owned by it sees play, except maybe clowncar. USF also has AP rounds on 50.cal in any case so the argument is moot. Ost has mines, that's completely true but compared to USF which has joke mines and no AI mines, I see that as an incredible upside.

Extra pen munition is not as often used, because LV (the perfect target) are higly mobile and HMGS are static. Therefore any player will always avoid HMGS. They are very useful for tight situations, axis LV are far more rare than allied, thats why .50 cal feels "moot"

Flame HT is a sidegrade, as a counterpoint I'll point to the m20 that has a MANDATORY 70 AMMO UPGRADE ON A 20 FUEL LIGHT VEHICLE(?????), that also relies on the smoke discharge that costs ammo to survive.

First those 2 units are way too different from each other. Do not compare them lightly. A 251 is a troop support unit that LOSES its role to becoma a mobile flame truck. M20 only gets upgraded FURTHER. You dont need to pay 70 munition unless you want to play bullet sponge brick m20.

USF at gun having an ammo ability to even get normal AT gun penetration value is also something no other faction has to rely on.

"Normal penetration" is a very elitist term, so what are HVAP rounds for jackson? "Acceptable pounding"?
The ATG balance is a whole topic itself, and all atgs are balanced around opportunity / cost. Munition here is not even a good example. On the other side OST "needs" (by your terms) to use TWP to take out M36 with far less effective panthers (ATG+muni+Panther cost more than a single m36) but i see no one crying about that?

I agree that Ost has a lot of options for ammo expenditure, but besides the gren lmg I don't see many necessary upgrades.

Its because you need to redefine "need" by each faction gamestyle.

I am all against offmaps that delete stuff without room for reaction, just saying in my opinion it didn't seem powerful enough to warrant a nerf, but I might be wrong.

Because there are none of those in the game already, all have flares. The fast artyllery barrage gives enough time for all infatry to leave and only some of the slower TW can receive a few hits.

I hope we can exange further opinions on what is Optional/Need

Not calling you a wherebo but just why should it?
The panther can do that already. Heavies dont arrive sooner thenna panther mostly. Every army has unit that fall short as the game progresses.

I could see it work though it probably should be a vet 1 ability to replace twp. Meds should not notice any difference since the stug pens them easily.

because allied TD have such design, preserving TDs means late game pen reliability.
Axis TD dont have that, for uknown reasons, maybe because they rely on doctrinal upgrades like tactician or scopes, but lategame wise those cant add value against heavy tanks that nowdays are meta.

Again vet3 stug is not easy to achieve unless it hits a lot of mediums. Stalling for heavies means no xp for stugs apart from hitting infantry

Player expresses a nonthreatening opinion about a unit:

Coh2 Fourms: YeS bUt AcTuAlLy No

A person gives an accurate enough picture of a unit, but its incomplete. Whats wrong of suggesting the missing details? Also stugs life is right you know, Why would OP post it on balance otherwise?

Cobaltx105, again, the E8 is not that bad, it is being overshadowed by a much reliable, most secure investments that is M36.

You can try to use it sometimes and it does its job. Dont expect it to win a 1v1 vs an elephant thou