The stuka can outright destroy the team weapon so you wont be able to recrew it. So the wholes are justified in this sense.
This only happens if you don't repair them. Never saw ( or at least don't remember ) that one Stuka shell decrewed and destroyed an AT gun which was at 60%+ health ( not crew , but weapons health ) . Also it is not like Stuka is the only rocket arty which can destroy damaged Team weapons
Edit: Just testet it. It takes 4 Stuka to foot shells to destroy one Zis 3 gun ( 2 to decrew ) . So basically 4 barrages are needed. Meanwhile a Panzerwerfer can decrew AND destroy a Zis 3 gun with just one barrage. A katjuscha can also decrew AND destroy one Pak 40 with just one barrage ( so 4 volleys ) ( althought it must be said that you need a bit more luck than with werfer in order to destroy it when it is on 100% health )
That is a rather pointless comparison, as the Panzerwerfer and Katyusha are very ineffective at max range because their scatter increases with range, [...] . the Stuka is the only one that can actually make use of the max range
I see this claim very often, but in my experience this is not the case. While they certainly aren't as effective as on closer ranges a Vet 3 Panzerwerfer can still deal a lot of damage on Long Ranges ( Katjuscha on long range seems to be less effective than Panzerwerfer in comparison but is still doing ok ).
I now even did some testing with the Cheat Commands Mod II. A panzerwerfer on Vet 3 is perfectly capable of nailing or at least supressing squads on max range and can even get a decent amount of kills. So even on long range it can deny the capture of a point ( can't say the same about the Stuka to foot ).
can deal up to 200 damage per rocket to vehicles because of very high AOE penetration (albeit a bug/oversight);
I can not confirm this. I just testet this too in Cheat Command mods. A diret hit from a Stuka on a Panzer 4 top did 41 HP Damage. Mind you that only one Rocket will hit the tank. Meanwhile 2 Katjuscha barrages managed to bring one Panzer 4 down to 148.5 HP. ( 2 Full barrages from one Katjuscha )
Edit: Did some more testing with Stuka. Apparently it actually can deal up to 210 HP damage with one rocket, but the possiblity of this happening seems to be slim ( landed 8 rockets on tanks and only one dealt this much damage; in general they seem to do around 40 HP damage ( so in general Stuka to foot is far worse than Katjuscha AND even worse than Panzerwerfer ( Panzwerfer can deal 100+ HP damage on tanks ) when it comes to AT combat ( even if you get one 210 HP stuka bomb it is still only about the same as one Katjuscha )
Edit2 : Apparently one needs to land the Rocket a bit next to the tank to deal 210 to 200 Damage. GL microing that ...
It can theoretically come earlier than other non doc rocket artillery, but in most cases it doesn't, usually one gets a Panzer 4 first and then considers going rocket artillery. In a lot of cases you even have to back tech to Mech. HQ first making it even come later than other Rocket artilleries.
very high AOE damage/range means instant wipes can happen quite often.
I would argue that Panzerwerfer and Katjuscha still have a much higher chance of wiping whole units ( on close range they can get instant wipes too ) .
It has the longest reload time of all stock Rocket artys ( even Vet 5 Stuka has longer reload time than Vet 3 Werfer / Katjuscha ) , has less range than Katjuscha ( even vet 5 Stuka has less range than Vet 3 Katjuscha ) and about the same range as Werfer ( Vet 5 Stuka and Vet 3 Werfer appear to have almost if not the same range ) , it also has a way longer flight range than Katjuscha ( at least on Closer distances )
Yet it costs 390 MP and 100 fuel and even requires back teching Mech. Company in a lot of cases.
Meanwhile Werfer costs 365 MP and 85 fuel and Katjuscha costs 360 MP and 85 fuel .
So basically it is the most expensive non Doc Rocket artillery , but is overall the worst one.
Even the Flame rounds of the Stuka, which it unlocks at Vet 4 ( so already hard to unlock to begin with ) are a rather lackluster ability even though it has a hefty price of 100 ammo; you are bascially lucky if it even covers 90% of one Capture Point . The Firebarrage ability of the Soviets, which costs only 20 ammo more, is in comparison just so much better.
Then there is of course the most important thing about the Rocket artillery, namely its area of effect ( I suppose this is the right term ) ?
While every other rocket artillery covers a circular area the Stuka to Foot covers a linear one. This means that hitting anything but Support weapons or a Big blob moving throught a narrow passage is bascally impossible. But even hitting support weapons is hard against an enemy who has his headphones plugged in, as he just needs to move his Unit a few inches forward / back in order to avoid the fire. But even if he doesn't try to avoid the Stuka fire, then there is still the chance that your Stuka bombs will simply miss his anti tank gun by a few inches and cause little to no casualties ( A little side not here: I know that it is possible to tell where the first rocket will land, but against Soviet with their 6 men crews it still doesn't guarantee a decrew ( also aligning it properly , so the first rocket lands on the right spot is some extra micro that Pzwerfer and Katjuscha don't require. )
Sure, the Stuka has its moments too, for instance when you kill 90% a retreating blob. But In 99% of all cases those moments would have been achievable with a Panzerwerfer or a Katjuscha too.
So in conclusion: The Stuka is more expensive than other stock Rocket artillery, but is less powerful and even requires backtesting in a lot of cases.
So my proposals would be either:
- Moving the Cost down to 360 MP / 90 Fuel
or:
- Lowering the reload time by at least 15 seconds on Vet 0 and by another 10 seconds on Vet 3
Take fights all over the map. Don't blob vs brits.
This is actually something which I would recommend not doing. In a 1 vs 1 scenario your infantry is inferior to Sections, so taking fights all over the map is the last thing you want to do, as every battle will turn into a MP bleed for you.
Stall for a luchs and then you can f*** him. If he's spamming infantry like that your friends are: MG34, Luchs, Leig.
To OP: Don't do this. Don't stall for Luchs as OKW when facing UKF.
UKF gets AEC after 85 fuel( 30 + 15 + 60 - 20 ) , while OKW gets Luchs after 110 fuel ( 15 + 45+ 60 - 10 ) . By the time you can get Luchs your enemy will have a AEC on the field. Instead go for Puma ( if you go for Mech. HQ at all ) , since Puma will at least keep the AEC tamed down.
Also going for Mech. HQ means that you get Panzerfausts later than with Battlegroup and also don't have ammo free healing, which will make upgrading to Stgs even harder.
I also would not recommend getting a MG 34 unless there is a really well positioned house on the map ... and even then I would rather spend the MP on something else.
Leig is pretty much the only viable advice here. But remember to get 2 of them. One will mostly just bleed a bit of HP.
Im pointing out the possibility. And keep at gun not having to recrewed from the stat to comet timing is rare.
Which is actually quite nice that you did it, since I didn't even know about this feature ( especially handy for the Pak 40 drop of the Osttruppen commander ).
My point is the cromwell is a worse (cheaper) tank, so it can have a better upgrade, and the upgrade it self is not game breaking.
100% agree with this one. Cromwell can and should have access to the Commander upgrade. And on the Cromwell it also isn't overperforming ( if it is on any UKF tank at all )
Now to get back to the topic:
I actually don't have any hard feelings against the Comet from an Axis POV. My position towards the Comet is almost completely based on my UKF experience with it ( except the aversion towards the "sticky" effect of its grenade, which is based on the ML2 event ) .
And one thing which also makes be belive that the Commet needs to be tamed down in some way ( not hard, just a little bit ) is the feeling / the fact that I barely see / chose Churchill over Comet. But this ofc could also be based on the Churchill Underperfoming ( which I am 90% sure it is not ) .
I agree with most of what you've said. Only two things to clarify. Unfortunately the cromwell main gun is just worse then either panzer 4 against infantry, it has worse aoe and worse reload, though has the same scatter as the ostheer panzer 4, its worse then the okw P4. In addition, the combined(close range) dps of the Panzer 4 mgs(~28)is a fair bit better then the cromwells(~17). The cromwell fits ok in the British lineup and tech but its capabilities are pretty mediocre apart from its ability to self spot. Its ai is the worst of the generalist mediums.
Thanks for the clarification. Was looking at an older version of this website and assumed that the values were up to date. Aparently they aren't. ( looked the cromwell stats up on an older version because on the current one you can not look up cromwell stats at all )
the main point is someone said wp out range AT gun, which is not the case. WP dont out range At and comet dont out spot SUPPORTED AT. IF a comet want to take a wp shoot onto an AT with spoter, it will have to close in and take at least 1 shoot and the risk being snared is present.
The original statement was ( if i am not mistaken )
And Like you said, i can force the infantry to retreat, but have to take 1-2 pak shoot while, then im too have to fall back to repair. In that case, pak and whatever infantry have just push back a late tech 175 fuel tank, i count that a success.
Like I said? I said that you CAN take 1-2 Pak shots if you are not careful / fast enough.
Also would you really have to retreat your Comet in this scenario ? The spotter is forced to retreat so the Paks have no way of seing you, so you can just WP them.
It is as nobrainer as the top mg upgrade that give you 33% more MG dmg.
And how much does it cost again ? Also the Panther needs it to have at least some AI capability. And it isn't even a no brainer for like half the viable OKW commanders. When you have MG 42 you can't have a commander equipped.
Three UK tank have it are cromwell, ff and comet. In the case of cromwell, it is inferior to axis counter part on all other importan stat.
And also costs 10 to 30 fuel less ( also its AI capability seems to be similar if not better to the Panzer 4s main gun and once upgraded it can outrange Infantry ... unlike the counterparts of the axis)
I think put the infantry in front of the At gun is not something require an insane amount of skill. May be im wrong here.
Since they are still outranged by the Comet you can just force them to retreat. Sure, you might take one or two Pak shots if you are not careful / fast enough, but the probability of both Pak 40 shots penetrating you at this Range is less than 43% so it shouldn't be really an issue ( against double Raketen your odds are even better, here the chance of both shots penetrating is even as low as 38,5 % ; not accounting the probability of the shots missing )
I think one of the Comets problems is certainly its no brainer upgrade which costs only 25 ammo, giving it 45 Sight Range. As far as I know no non doc axis tank, besides the Panther, the Jp4 and the Puma ( all pretty much only AT ), has a sight range of 45 or better, thus not allowing them to outrange infantry. The comet on the other hand ( and a lot of other UKF tanks ) get this ability for a laughably sum of 25 ammo.
wp shoot have 45 range and comet with tank commander have 45 sight. It simply not out range nor out spot Supported AT.
You need to keep in mind that the ability just needs to be slightly inside of the 45 Range , but since the ability affects a 10*10 (just estimated) radius you can actually outrange AT guns.
But one also needs to keep in mind that OKW has currently not a lot of recon options. It has recon on 3 Commanders of which one is basically never seen. So nerfing Specs OPs would bring the recon options down to 2 ( realistically 1 )
Meanwhile UKF have lots of recon options and even have things such as non doc flares on the 17 pounder.
Also I don't get the "Brit ones just lighten up the front" argument. While it makes this ofc impossible to know what the enemy is doing in front of his base you got the whole front illuminated. This is something which should also not be underestimated. ( also there are some abilities which can lighten up behind the front too, although they are bundled in with unit call ins )
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