You forgot wermacht has nondoctrinal panther that counters every piece of armor usf can deploy, pershing included.
Thats my point: Wehrmacht NEEDS to go T4 to stay relevant, yes, Panther can counter all us tanks but the unit is very expensive and you also need reliable AI as Ostheer. That means you have to also build Brummbaer. Because of Allied TD's and Tanks like the T34-85 there is no place for Support Armor Corps anymore.
I concede that my post is provocative but you should also keep in mind that an E8 /76mm Sherman could be stronger after a rework. And if you say that the 76mm Sherman is shit... what does that mean for the Wehrmacht PIV (cheaper and a little bit weaker than 76mm Sherman?
Weak point of USF was and should always be the Armor department. But if you look at the current 8 commanders 4 of them give you better tank options:
Armor: Bulldozer, M10
Cavalry: Pershing
Mechanized: 76mm Sherman
Rifle: E8
Now a lot of players want a better tank in the new USF commander, demanding an E8 or the 76mm Sherman. That would mean that you would get in over 50% of the US commanders better tanks than Wehrmacht can get with T3. This sounds bad imo, USF can not have the best light vehicles, superiour infantry, the best TD in the game and premium mediums in the most used commanders at the same time.
If i add your numbers for the wehrmacht tech then i come to => 175fuel. Sure that the fuel numbers are correct? If yes, P4 would arrive at the same time!
@Sander:
I agree that the JP4 would offer more strategic differsity but would the mod team even consider giving the JP4 to Wehrmacht? OKW players asked for a Stug in Elite Armor before the revamp process started and the mod team said that this would not be an option because both units would have the same role...
Reduce OKW and OST Vet 2 P4's armor from 234 to 215, to bring it in line with Sherman E8, but increase hitpoints from 640 to 720 and increase fuel from 140 to 150. That would make a huge difference and could help P4 to better compete in late game and would also give you a real choice.
WOW, thx for this important post,your suggestions make a ton of sense!
I wouldnt trust at all this poll, since these are really hot topics, i see people biased towards a faction to come and vote just the opposite of people wanting to play such faction.
Also allied polls have 2 options between changes but axis have a do/dont poll. The latter is obviously sabotaged. People hating OST can stop KT from being in OST as an example.
Sry OP, i find your curiosity and will to help as good as it can be, but people voting do not have such good will.
Edit: I find really curious that 14 people voted for E8 on USF to be bundled with dozers but also (The same) 14 people voted for OKM to keep the "normal" Tiger. Its no coincidence. I abstained my vote since i noticed this flaw.
Proof picture:
Poll can give you at least an impression in which direction the community wants to go but i agree that you need to be careful with the results.
I can't say where to go from here thematically, or for the health of the faction, but if the PZIV J were to be replaced, I would say replace it with something that adds micro (adds to the difficulty) of this commander. Currently the whole thing is very sexy, and I'll bet people will make it a staple- devs should throw a spanner into the works at this early stage so it's not too comfortable a pick. Radio is the key ease-of-life improvement to this pick IMO.
Why is the OKW PZIV less micro intensive? I mean the better armor doesnt mean that you can frontally attack well defended positions. And dont forget that the wehrmacht version comes significantly earlier.
Actually, while I have you here Smartie, can you share your thoughts about the Panzer IV J as implemented? I just don't understand it's place in this commander. What is it meant to offer thematically?
PZIV was the "working horse" of german armor, the most used and produced tank in the war. The better version should reflect that the improved version was the standard tank on the eastern front.
But to be honest i did include it not so much because of theme reasons but for gameplay reasons. I know, its not a sex pick, but i find the better armored PZIV extremely helpful. Wehrmacht have to face in 8 of 10 games against soviets T34-85 which are superior to your own PZIV, USF can field 76mm shermans / E8 - both are better than your standard PIV. Thats wyh people usually skip T3 these days and build Brumm / Panther.
BTW: Welcome to the forum! Keep on giving feedback and ask critical question. We need that to make this commander as good as possible.
Are you not moving the goalposts on the design a bit? The KT is a slow boy, and fine for 'pluggin a hole'- if that can said to happen in a usual coh2 sized match, but I feel like the spirit of the commander was in intel and fast/flexible response.
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IMO, two things for this commander: Recon should essentially stay, and a workaround implemented if code problems exist. And Ace should stay, following the idea that the commander is a flexible, if reactionary, presence on the field. Tiger 1 speed screams firefighter brigade thematically more so than KT's approach to frontline/backline issues.
To be honest you essentially summed up how i feel about this doctrine. I would also prefer TIgerAce over KT because of the reasons you descriped. But its only fair to also point point out the advantages of the proposed swap.
About "Radio": I played some games over the weekend and find this ability extremely helpful. If the mod team needs to replace it.... than we should get "Early Warning flares" for radio. Strong recon for strong recon.
But lets hope Radio can stay.
A units better suited fro the commander would be the dozer (one could then remove the dozer blades). The dozer could also be redesigned to work more like a mini KV-2 and maybe have a limited to 1 or 2. That could also allow the easy8 to be moved to elite armor.
Like your idea, Dozer from Armor Company would fit a lot better than 76mm Shermans or E8.
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