Yeah it use to be an huge issue when TDs struggled against heavies and I honestly prefer Medium+TD meta over heavy spam meta that plagued coh2 a few years ago.
That being said I think the Tiger could use a slight price decrease or maybe Buffs to mgs as we don't want another wipe machine like the old KT either.
+1
Axis already have the edge with blob counters. Stock rocket artillery and the Brummbar already means allied infantry play require a lot of care, especially when Volks and Grens are already very strong, usually being countered by Allied elites which tend to better than the axis ones. Soviets rely on guards or shock troops, USF on Rangers or 1919 rifleman and UKF on commandos or bren blobs. Giving axis more tools to wipe these expensive units is going to throw both infantry play and vehicle play into axis favour. The current balance is somewhat decent if you ask me, I'd rather not mess with it too much. |
I agree for KT and IS-2, but I think Tiger's AI is generally fine. It has pretty good accuracy/scatter and AOE versus infantry.
The Tiger's Firerate is pretty good too tbh, which helps. |
Tiger I is more of an option you get with a Commander, often letting you play a strong T3 build, then top it off with it as the Spearhead, it's new speed makes it quite the deadly predator on the sides.
That's pretty much exactly what I use it for. I usually only tech tier 4 for the panzerwerfer. Although my OST play style is pretty outdated. XD |
The Tiger is pretty good compared to the Panther, but I think the main problem is that on most maps the Tiger just becomes an XP pinata for Allied TD meta and unlike the Panther can't reverse fast enough to escape bad encounters.
Yeah true, I hadn't thought of that actually. Looking at the stats though, the only things the panther has over the Tiger is Penetration and mobility. The Penetration doesn't really matter against anything other than British late game tanks and the IS2 however and even then only slightly.
So it seems despite the fact the Tiger is better in nearly every way, it's still not being used. So I guess either it's lack of mobility is a massive problem, or it's too expensive for it's role? Perhaps both.
Buffing the damage I don't think is the fix, also I'm not really a fan of messing with those sort of stats, I like the fact that most medium tanks will die in 4-5 shots other than to things like PaK43s etc, I'd prefer the adjustment of armour and pen over damage and health any day. It's currently what I don't like about the Panther's current state is that it nearly always escapes on around 20 HP, That last shot that you think will kill it, never does. XD |
Buffing axis armour is pretty much a no no right now, similar to buffing allied TDs. As a result of these factions strengths I think the armour balance is actually pretty good right now, the only things that are throwing the balance are the things around the edge like the Brummbarr.
However I don't see many Tiger 1s around atm other than Tiger aces, so perhaps it is underperforming for it's price though, 640 manpower is a **** load of MP, for the Tiger 1's price you can nearly have 2 churchills.
So perhaps however, it might be worth decreasing it's cost? Perhaps say 550 manpower and 210 fuel or something might make it more appealing. It is essentially just a panther that can kill infantry after all but it's a massive target for allied players.
A lot of the issues with these heavy tanks, (Pershing, Tiger 1, IS2) isn't with themselves, it's that their peers are so much more potent or cost effective. The issue with the IS2 for example is that it's not an SU-85. The IS2 is still great, but it's not an SU-85 so it's not worth it. Same with the pershing with the Jackson. The Tiger's issue is that the panther is far more cost effective. |
Vanguard is good but flawed imo. It's a great commander but you have to be careful when picking it. Make sure you have other suitable commanders and only pick to counter your enemy or vanguard can really screw you over.
I would say the biggest drawback of Vanguard is the lack of offmap artillery (typhoon strafe isn't enough imo and gets shot down easily). Vanguard is great for brawling for points and annihilating infantry but the lack of offmap strikes neuter you a bit much in my opinion and the only real advantage of the HQ glider itself over the normal glider from commando reg is you can retreat to it. The medics are just Tommies that can't shoot anything but cost 4 less pop.
The lack of offmaps leaves you very vulnerable to LefHs and turtle players but is not a problem if you play with friends that can cover you from that. USF infantry company and any soviet commander with Il2 bombing run are great for this.
For commandos I prefer commando regiment. The glider from commando reg can be dropped in enemy territory and you can replenish squads in enemy territory too. Vanguard You can build commandos for slightly less (40mp) but I prefer being able to either provide my teammates with reinforcement points or dump commandos in their rear. On top of that, phosphorous/HE combo mortars are lethal and Air supremacy is great for deleting turtle players.
Crocodile is still awesome tho btw and is getting better next patch. |
come on, 5 Men Bren Tommy Blobs are a much bigger Problem
Both OKW and OST have Stock rocket artillery to deal with blobs, blobbing as allies, especially UKF, is extremely unwise. Also Tommy blobs are more expensive both in manpower and munitions and hence should be better. They are both better as they should be and counterable as they should be so I wouldn't say they were a problem at all.
Their veterancy was nerfed and the bonuses are currently lower than other mainline infantry like conscript.
Lmgs for 5 men squad is problematic because the unit's DPS does not drop fast enough when losing models.
Conscript vet is awesome, especially with PPSH's, perhaps it's too good and a problem I don't know. it doesn't make volks not a problem though.
It's the Vet combined with everything else that's the problem.
Osttruppen get MG42s and no one complains about that and they're 6 man squads and not even terrible in cover. I don't mind if Volksgrenadiers become more powerful with an MG34/42 at range and their dps doesn't drop properly, my issue is that assault infantry don't counter them. It makes them much weaker to assault infantry which should counter them. Also STG-44s still have the same problem with the 5 man squad, the only difference being the DPS doesn't drop until the 4th model is dead rather than the 5th.
Also, wiping the vet of Allied infantry is pretty simple as rocket artillery is stock for axis and very effective, wiping veterancy of Volksgrenadiers is not so simple for anyone other than soviets, they are 5 man rather than 4 like Grens which gives them much better survivability. Although you can kill volks pretty easily, especially for USF, you can struggle to get the wipes like Axis and soviets can due to the lack of prevalent allied rocket arty. A decent player will not let you wipe their infantry unless you kill them before they can react i.e.- rocket artillery. |
Regardless of his playercard or his post, he is making a point that people have been making for months so none of that it relevant.
They definitely overperform both against their peers due to their vet and their counters for their price thus making them into an extremely potent unit which is why we see so many of them. Not only do volks perform well against all other line units at all ranges due to their STG upgrade, they also perform well against weapon teams due to their incendiary nades and vehicles when supported due to having snares.
My Biggest urk with them is the STG44 upgrade, Volksgrens would still be a valid unit without this upgrade due to their price and good veterancy AND good utility, they would just assume the current role of conscripts. The upgrade is cheap and extremely powerful at all ranges, they cannot be dropped either and it makes them trade out extremely well with line infantry AND assault infantry including commandos unless vetted or ambushed. All line infantry in the game are countered by assault infantry apart from volksgrenadiers. They suffer from the same spec that the rest of the OKW roster do in that they are the best units for right clicking the capture point and watching your units win, as such they are very forgiving to poor play but do not really reward good play, essentially just making them "idiot proof".
Not that I don't think they should have an upgrade however, I think they should upgrade to an MG34/MG42. This will make them much more effective line infantry as they will perform much better at range which is their intended purpose but also make them vulnerable to assault infantry in CQC which in my opinion, they should be and have been in previous patches. Rather than these 5 squad doomstack blobs that all become disgusting vet 5 terminators as the match goes on.
I'm not moaning that they are uncounterable, I can counter them, but it tends to tie me to certain doctrines (e.g.- UKF Royal Engineers, or USF infantry company) which results in pretty stale gameplay. |
As for the other questions in team games your main objective as UKF is to hold your point, If you hold your point your team is half way to victory, let your teammates be flexible and mobile and you act as their backbone giving them somewhere to play off. Ensure your point is well established and defended with mines, MG and AT before attempting to help other players or you risk losing both their point and your own.
Pretty much all the commanders are good, tactical support is not particularly useful right now but stands to be the best after the next patch (getting crocodile mobile mortar and improved sappers and other gerneral fixes)
I mostly use Commando regiment(CQC and anti LefH) Royal engineers (antiblob and vehicle mobility) and Special Weapons (Long range combat and mobile infantry support) I sometimes swap one of them out for Mobile assault. All the other regiments are good, I don't use royal artillery cos I regularly play with a USF Infantry Company player. Vanguard is good, but I prefer having Bombing runs and phosphorous over Typhoons and Glider HQ. Advanced emplacements is good for sim city or small maps but not much else.
Best Units:
Some units do carry the faction, Infantry sections are good but can be unreliable and bleed manpower badly, The vickers is very powerful and great for kills but doesn't suppress well, it's more of a firesupport platform than a suppression platform. Good against OST due to their expensive infantry. Royal Engineers are not justr engineers, they are defensive sturmpioneers, very powerful if you use them right. Commandos are the most cost effective unit in the faction probably, have powerful Vet and straight up melt anything when attacking from ambush. Centaur is a godsend for destroying blobs once vet 1 but can be risky to go for unless you either already have armour or have a strong fuel advantage. Firefly is awesome when vetted but easily diveable. Both the comet and the churchill are great, the comet can be infuriating to use though so If you're starting out stick to anvil, it's much more forgiving.
Faction is carried by Commandos, Royal engineers, 6 pdrs, centaur and the churchill variants imo.
Get weapon racks when you need them, early if you don't go commandos as Tommies need them to compete later on. If you are, you may not need them at all.
Upgrade to 5 man squads if you don't use commandos, if you do use commandos it's not really necessary. I normally upgrade to 5 men after my first tank is out so that I don't delay armour. I bolster early for 5 man sappers mostly but sometimes for tommies if I need to compete with axis infantry (Gren, volks or sturm spam or panzerfusiliers). I tend to think bolstering is a waste against machine gun and mortar spammers as it tends to just be more people to die to mortars rather than any improved performance. |
Definitely MG unless you desperately need a wasp to deal with garrisoned MG spam. UC with Vickers K at vet 2 straight up melts squads in a few salvos so not only is it safer, it scales a lot better too. Vickers K is also a soft counter against light vehicles too and will allow the UC to solo a halftrack/flame halftrack most of the time and I have fought off 4 Kublwagens at once with it before too. The UC is Early game brits width so it's soooo important to have on every map except the MOBA maps like Ettelbrucke station or Angermunde.
If you're New to UKF I definitely recommend starting with MG then Triple section. (MG-IS-IS) then probably a UC. Anything less than that leaves you vulnerable to being rushed and overwhelmed by Volks/sturms unless you really know what you're doing with the Universal Carrier, if you do you can basically just keep pruning down the blob and retreating forever until they get a raketenwerfer.
Saving for commandos works but leaves you vulnerable, it's better to pump out more Tommies earlier in my opinion as you can always send them to die later if REALLY need pop cap, chances are the enemy will kill them for you anyway. I normally prefer to tech and get sappers and a mortar pit or sniper and AT gun out before commandos anyway so I never really get commandos out at 3 CP anyway. It's better to build 3 squads of tommies and lose 1 leaving you with 2 squads than stay at 1 squad and lose it leaving you with 0. The only time I save manpower early game is on ettelbrucke station left point where my build order goes:
-MG-Tech-triple Sappers-AT-double mortar pit-5 man squads.
But that's Ettelbrucke... (Extreme CQC)
I tend to have 4 build orders (ish) depending on whether I know I'm attacking, defending or CQC.
Defending (If I am closest to the cap or if the point is in the middle)
Either
MG-IS-IS-Tech-AT-sappers-Mortar
or
MG-IS-Tech-RE-Mortar-AT-IS
depends on what enemy comp I'm facing and what map
Attacking
MG-IS-IS-Tech-Sniper
CQC (Ettelbrucke)
MG-Tech-RE-RE-RE-Mortar-Mortar
Triple Sappers and bolster like i said before, cheesy as hell. (Seriously. not much beats 15 sten guns early game, better than Sturm spam, better than volks STG spam, better than assault grens etc) |