|
Dude... solid sattire but like I said, I don't think anything should be nerfed. Rocket artillery is extremely cost effective rn, it's not difficult to see, I've been on both ends of it. Sweeping only goes so far. you have to dive into the back of their base to get at them normally, how are you supposed to sweep that? A cost increase is not a big ask but would go a long way, only Russia get the t34 and okw get the puma, the other 3 factions you're asking them to regularly trade a 110 fuel (minimum) for an 85 fuel unit or no unit.
The comparison of the panther to the pwerfer is kind of null though, you're not buying the panzerwerfer on it's ability to take hits. It's like comparing a brummbar to a grenadier squad on it's ability to capture points. They serve different roles that aren't comparable. Compare the panther to panzerwerfer on it's ability to kill infantry and you could argue that the panther should cost half the price of a panzerwerfer no?
Again, I don't think rocket artillery should be nerfed, it serves a critical role, especially in the late game, I just don't think certain rocket artillery is punishing enough to lose considering it's killing potential, it's an extremely safe way to kill A LOT of stuff. Like I said, I recently got over 100 kills in a game from a panzerwerfer, also probably 5 tanks with mines that tried to dive me? That's some serious unit efficiency right there. No other unit (bar rocket artillery) can do that and it's one of the cheapest vehicles to field. |
|
No tank in the game is durable enough to take a hit by a mine and not get snared, that's the issue any competent player will plant mines etc. Diving is not a valid strategy. However if your point is that I could be fielding tanks to fight the rest of their army that is true, but hardly a counter. Any amount of fuel to strip the enemy of vet even once in 6 salvos is incredible for any price. Like I said though, I don't want a counter or a nerf, I want a cost adjustment.
In team games, spamming rocket artillery is easy as it's so cheap. If your allies field tanks you can. Regardless, spamming them isn't really my issue, I agree if they're spamming it they don't have a lot of anything else. But that doesn't change the fact that they are extremely cost efficient for their price at the moment. A few games ago I got 100 kills with 2 panzerwerfers. If that's not cost efficiency I don't know what is. |
|
I agree fuel isn't necessarily a limiting factor in team games, perhaps a manpower increase is in order too then. However the extra fuel attrition from losing them would help and make them less spammable. Especially in a close game, the extra loss of resources even minor can be a deciding factor. |
|
Hey, before I start this I wanna say I'm an experienced player, with 2,500 hours before I get the inevitable "REEEEE L2P NUB".
Lately I've noticed that, particularly in team games, rocket artillery has become rather too cost effective in my eyes and as such much more prevalent. From all sides that is, however I'd note that as all axis factions have rocket artillery stock, it favours them slightly.
The balancing factor for rocket artillery has been that if attacked it dies easily, one shot from any medium tank will kill it. So the counter to rocket artillery in the game, bar the odd lucky hit from a priest or LefH, is to charge around the map and dive it. However, particularly in team games this is not always a valid strategy, it is very easy to lock down vast swathes of the map with not a lot of units, especially using bunkers/fighting positions and mines, particularly Tellermines which don't detonate for infantry so often lie dormant for half the game, whilst very difficult to find a hole to squeeze a medium tank though 4 players to counter.
For some factions this can be an inconvenience and for others extremely punishing, Russia and OKW can happily throw a t34 or puma to its death in the hope of countering the rocket artillery however UKF,USF and OST this often requires sending a much more expensive unit to it's death to kill something with a much lower price tag. In a lot of cases, sweeping will not be possible either.
This means most rocket artillery will ALWAYS trade up for value, even if killed before killing anything as in most cases the tank that is sent to kill it will be killed trying to escape.
Particularly with the low price tag of panzerwerfers/Katyushas, often in team games I'll see a player build up to 4 of these units with the responsibility fall to me to try to kill them. A decent Player will force you to chase the rocket artillery to the back of their base between barrages whilst surrounding them with most of their units when firing leaving a dive virtually useless.
I don't think rocket artillery needs a nerf, I think it's an important unit for wiping late game High veterancy infantry units. However I think it is far too cost effective for it's price, notably the panzerwerfer and Katyusha and possibly the land mattress.
I think all rocket artillery should be bumped up to 100 fuel minimum, The stuka is fine for price imo but the fact that it can often be abandoned needs to go and could possibly be nerfed in speed/acceleration. The land mattress is inherently vulnerable and wipes less but is easily spammable so could go up to 60 fuel and still remain cost effective, Callope price is already sufficient. Pop cap of all of these units could be raised to make them more punishing to build 4 of.
The fact that axis have stock rocket artillery that is so cost-effective results in axis being able to virtually always render allied anti tank guns useless. AT guns being a fairly critical part of AT for allies against panthers. I can often find myself unable to sustain a single anti tank gun as allies in the late game whilst fighting against 3-4 PaKs or Raketens myself.
I would argue that when fielding a glass cannon unit such as rocket artillery with the potential to safely wipe critical late game verterancy from infantry, it should be down to the player to protect their powerful egg rather than down to their opponent to try and deal with it. I think with mines it currently rewards your own passive play too much whilst heavily penalising the enemy for theirs. Especially seeing as the absolutely foolproof solution for a dive is to always just reverse the thing into your base. People need a reason to not just build 9 of them and hide behind their allies.
TL;DR - All rocket arty needs to be at least 100 fuel, it's not my fault you didn't put mines down if it dies. |
|
*places like the railway stations on Ettelbruck station or Lienne forest. stuff like that. |
|
I think he's probably worried about wehrmacht bunkers or other MG kill spots being obliterated by one squad, which is a fair point, almost? One squad one man (or 4/5 man) armying an MG could be a little cheesy as UKF's default infantry would kind of be an MG counter, a big part of many peoples wehrmacht playstyle. So I see where he's coming from, it could turn the Brit balance on it's head as the current status quo is that UK infantry can't really deal with MGs that well. But that's why they're adding the smoke barrage in the first place.
But tbh I agree with the general consensus, you have to go hammer to do this and it's gonna cost you 80 munitions to kill an MG bunker that cost 150mp and 60 munitions, imo that's a pretty fair trade. Although pyrotechnic tommies can already do this for 40 munitions with a flare and teching (or not teching) anvil, perhaps by letting another squad get pinned temporarily.
UKF Heavy gammons, should definitely not be made to snare... ever. Satchels is fine as Russia have no decent infantry AT options. UKF have weapon racks and a tommie squad with 2 piats and snaring gammon bomb could virtually one shot a panzer 4 or 2 volley a panther. |
|
Yo, so I'm an experienced player, I have upwards of 2,000 hours, the majority in UKF, and in the group I usually play with am placed top 200 on the leaderboards in team of 3 (last I checked anyway) but mostly play 3v3s and 4v4s.
Recently however, map dependent, I have been getting absolutely demolished by this one Ostheer strategy. It beats me every time and I'm left floundering with units with no vet and no armour.
So the strat:
The strat is essentially inverting the usual, so using infantry AT backed up with machine guns and Anti-infantry tanks. Last I faced this was today in a 2v2 and the guy was using 3 squads of Panzergrens with Panzerschrecks backed up by an MG42 and a bunker, with a PaK40, then for tanks he had 2 Ostwinds and later on, a Tiger 1.
It essentially completely zones out my infantry, I couldn't sneak flank them with commandos due to the ostwinds, and my tanks, even churchills, couldn't get close to kill the MGs so my infantry could push in. The guy ended up killing my churchill and my firefly by stunning them both with a frag bomb run and pushing them with the panzergrens (I was fighting at the edge of the map so the bombs hit me immediately as the flares came down, I didn't just sit in them)
The issue essentially boils down to me having no mobile indirect fire with mortar pits being unusable due to the fact if he moved up his units, I would have to retreat leaving the pit to be destroyed. The one unit that I have beaten this with is the land mattress but I don't currently have Mobile Assault slotted. I've fought it before by borrowing a teammates pack howitzer and priests too.
Aside from slotting mobile assault. I was curious if anyone had any suggestions? Like I said, I'm an experienced player, but I'm completely stumped, it beats me every time unless I was to take mobile assault (or I guess royal artillery) from the start every game, 2 regiments I'm currently not using. The only other thing I can think of is building muntions caches early and spamming Tommy flares at him all game. |
|
Most British recon abilities do not work on this map for some reason, I have no idea why It also takes the munitions off you as well anyway. I've mentioned this loads but its never been fixed.
I know that:
Royal Artillery Early Warning does not work.
Commando Regiment Assault recon does not work.
Command vehicle recon plane DOES work.
Tactical support Advanced Forward Assembly recon DOES work.
I'd suggest avoiding commando Regiment on this map and ask allies to take recon on Rhzev cos the British recon abilties are screwed. |
|
Often if they have to build 2 leigs, they will be lacking in the infantry department so if you're building infantry whilst they are building leigs you should outgun them easy, so push into them (although I agree this is a pain in the arse if they have a OST teammate with an mg42).
OKW cant afford to let you outgun them early game as the one advantage they have is the ungodly amount of men they can throw at you in the first 4 minutes. Brits are the only allied faction that can compete against volks like this early game. But if they build leigs instead, you should cut down their volks easy peasy. Commandos at 3cp will clean up their teamweapons in no time and if they haven't been spamming volks, the commandos will clean them up too.
I disagree on dont build emplacements. On narrow maps, like ettelbrucke etc, 2 leigs behind an mg42 wall can be awful to deal with without indirect fire. But this can play into your hands too. It's well known the 2 leigs can counter a mortar pit, so on a narrow map, just build a second mortar pit and defend them both with an MG and mines. (or bofors or whatever) I personally like to rush out 3 squads of sappers with flame throwers to torch anything that gets suppressed by the mg and then you can use them to repair the mortar pits too. Watch them squash everything on the map. In order to counter that, they'll need 4 leigs which means they physically wont be able to defend them as they wont have any infantry. More likely they will rush a stuka to deal with them so its probably wise to invest in a cromwell/AEC to dive it early, that will set them back massively.
Yup, if you can't beat 'em, join em. If they want to play Leig cancer, show them some sim city cancer. 2 mortar pits will squash every weapon team on the map, you can use them to smoke off their mgs for a push and they'll also splat any infantry that get stuck too.
Late game, if you have enough fuel, just play a mostly armour roster, vehicle crew repairs on mobile assault/royal engineers/vanguard mean you dont need to build many engineers to keep them topped up either. |
|
If you're playing alone and want to win team games, take anything that can help you counter the arty fest or superheavy TDs
I reckon
USF: Infantry company is the best by far then Recon support and Armor are excellent. If you have buddies to cover your weaknesses, Urban assault and Heavy Cav are still good.
UKF: I personally take Schweppes (Railway arty and vickers + croc) and Commando Reg (Assault + Air Supremacy lets you outright deny LeFHs all game and you have commandos, glider lets you reinforce even when cut off) whilst swapping out between mobile assault (Rocket arty) and tactical support (Ridiculous Munitions leverage late game + croc) OR Royal Engineers (Flamer spam and AVRE). I personally don't like vanguard as a team games commander but to each their own. Most of the british regiments are solid for team games.
Soviet: Mech Support, Armoured assault and maybe counter attack? NKVD rifle disruption and dank hunters are pretty good wildcards. |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
